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Firebrand and Stormcaller Question


pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
04.18.2012 , 10:33 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by llurg View Post
If we needed to tank swap, we'd do it. We have 0 issues with the tank taking the hits. If it's so clear to you that we're not doing 16man, then why even comment on 16man strategy when it's so apparent that we're doing 8man? Besides, the topic is the electric disturbance, not tank swapping. Get your false elitism out of here.

The electric disturbance is happening in the middle of the phase and not at the end of the phase which makes even less sense. We make it under the shield generator just fine, start killing the adds, and then we get hit even though the tank is dropping electric disturbances beautifully in front of Stormcaller.
I comment on a 16 man strategy because your post topic is a general "Firebrand and Stormcaller Question", with no indication about 8 man in there. I don't want some JoeSchmoe coming in that does 16 mans and get all confused by your bad strategy that will not work in 16 mans, or Nightmare. Just because 8 man is easier and you can "cheese" the mechanics, doesn't mean it was intended to do so. BW may even change the encounter on 8 man to prevent this kind of thing in the future, like they changed stuff on PTS.

Instead of getting upset when someone calls you out for missing mechanics, accept the criticism and make the change. It is designed to help you because people are getting used to doing that fight incorrectly and against the dev's design.

Regarding your issue of the electric disturbances, it cannot happen if your tank has threat. Here is how it works:

At beginning of Defensive Systems, a disturbance goes on a random member, including stormcaller tank. At the end of the cast is the knockback and the 1st disturbance will be dropped where the tank was standing provided he had threat. If he doesn't, the disturbance is dropped inside the shield because it is on one of the dps and wipes the raid.

Fraps it next time you are seeing that it is a problem so we can all see and if there is a "bug" it can be reported and fixed with video proof. Devs are quicker to respond with proof. Personally, we haven't seen it as long as the tank has threat going into that phase.
Cali Killed Nox
Genshen 50: Powertech | Guardian | Assassin | Sniper | Sage
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xenofire's Avatar


xenofire
04.18.2012 , 12:48 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by alifaraaz View Post
I cannot confirm this to be true - but someone said there's a max number of people you can put under each shield? So maybe you have too many people stacked under 1 shield and not the other.

We only had a spire spawn on us while in shield once, and that was when there was like 6 of us under one shield (on 16man Story). However that could have been down to something else - I have no idea what was going on with the rest of the raid.
In hard mode if you put more than 4 under a shield it will go away too quickly.
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DarkenWulf's Avatar


DarkenWulf
04.18.2012 , 02:58 PM | #23
Weird one for us today, Lightning spires randomly dropping on main tank on firebrand. No forewarning either. Plus the yellow pillar was landing both sides of raid. Not sure if this is a bug or I missed something. Were running 8 man story
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pure_laced's Avatar


pure_laced
04.18.2012 , 03:35 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkenWulf View Post
Weird one for us today, Lightning spires randomly dropping on main tank on firebrand. No forewarning either. Plus the yellow pillar was landing both sides of raid. Not sure if this is a bug or I missed something. Were running 8 man story
During Defensive systems? Need more info than what is given. If people are not at range and everyone is on the tanks, spires can drop on the tanks.
Cali Killed Nox
Genshen 50: Powertech | Guardian | Assassin | Sniper | Sage
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llurg's Avatar


llurg
04.23.2012 , 02:31 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by pure_laced View Post
I comment on a 16 man strategy because your post topic is a general "Firebrand and Stormcaller Question", with no indication about 8 man in there. I don't want some JoeSchmoe coming in that does 16 mans and get all confused by your bad strategy that will not work in 16 mans, or Nightmare. Just because 8 man is easier and you can "cheese" the mechanics, doesn't mean it was intended to do so. BW may even change the encounter on 8 man to prevent this kind of thing in the future, like they changed stuff on PTS.

Instead of getting upset when someone calls you out for missing mechanics, accept the criticism and make the change. It is designed to help you because people are getting used to doing that fight incorrectly and against the dev's design.

Regarding your issue of the electric disturbances, it cannot happen if your tank has threat. Here is how it works:

At beginning of Defensive Systems, a disturbance goes on a random member, including stormcaller tank. At the end of the cast is the knockback and the 1st disturbance will be dropped where the tank was standing provided he had threat. If he doesn't, the disturbance is dropped inside the shield because it is on one of the dps and wipes the raid.

Fraps it next time you are seeing that it is a problem so we can all see and if there is a "bug" it can be reported and fixed with video proof. Devs are quicker to respond with proof. Personally, we haven't seen it as long as the tank has threat going into that phase.
Dude, you need to get off your high horse. There's nothing constructive about anything you've said so just stop.

There's no *cheesing* of the mechanics. You don't have to tank swap in 8-man. Period. You CAN if you want to practice, but if they wanted us to tank swap in 8-man, then Firebrand would deal 26k damage during an incinerate armor. Don't you think? Nah, I must be making things up.

Next time, take a minute to read a few posts, like the OP's, and see what's going on. If you would have said 'Hey, you're getting spires. Try this:', or even, 'Hey, you have to tank swap in 16-man so you might as well practice', then that would have been constructive. Instead you're all like 'you *clearly* aren't doing 16-man blah blah blah'. Then you go on to talk about the beginning of the phase when I had mentioned that we transition just fine, but the spire comes down in the middle of the phase. Did you not read anything I had posted? Again, there was nothing constructive. Yea, well, I prefer 8-mans vs 16-mans. If I wanted to 16-mans all the time, I'd join a larger guild. So before you go posting about how awesome you *clearly* are, be relevant, be insightful, and be courteous. Read the post you're replying to before you reply.

Thanks.
Liquid - Operative - The Twin Spears

Semitote's Avatar


Semitote
04.23.2012 , 02:37 PM | #26
As a tank on hardmode of this fight I had to stay in until the defensive systems got to about half cast in order to be sure I maintained threat throughout the shield phase to keep lightning spires on me. I usually taunted as I ran out as well and threw some kind of ranged attack once I was out to be extra certain.

Whenever lightning spires landed on shields, it was without a doubt 100% an aggro issue and was remedied by doing the above. Usually I would run out before the melee ran out and before the ranged stopped DPS'ing so one of the DPS would end up with aggro. Things got a lot easier once I started staying in til about 5 seconds left on the defensive systems cast.
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Iandayen's Avatar


Iandayen
04.23.2012 , 04:41 PM | #27
We have done this on both 8 man and 16 man, on the PTS throughout it's numerous changes and on live.

Never have we ever had a lightning spire dropped in a shield unless the tank died or lost agro. Ever.

We have had more than 4 people in a shield, no lightning spires. (think we had 7 one time on 16 man - 2 marauders and our dps jugg charged over to help kill adds in a shield once).

You should Fraps it - and make sure target of target is on, see who it dropped the spire on and figure out why. If it is a bug - I haven't seen it on either 8 or 16 man story or hard mode.

And Genshen obviously hasn't done it the correct way on 16 man either. If he wants to act like he's better than people in here I'll point out how he's wrong in just about everything he's saying.


While firebrand definitely hits harder in 16m hard mode - it's still possible to pop a cooldown and survive through it if your healers are good - it definitely doesn't hit for 26k+ - I think the max we saw was around 18-20kish.

Also "Tank swapping" the way they do it is bad and wrong.

Every time a double destruction goes off we just have a melee with taunt (our powertech dps does this) taunt firebrand, firebrand starts his cast of incenerate armor - regular tank taunts back. DPS tank never gets hit once, only gets the incernerate armor debuff and the main tank has agro by the time firebrand starts hitting again.

Healers don't have to worry about switching heal targets either.

Switching tanks completely is inefficient and dumb because for a moment the frontals are facing each other and there is a chance of both tanks eating 2 frontals each.
Hardpeck - Arsenal Mercenary
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Iandayen's Avatar


Iandayen
04.23.2012 , 04:50 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by pure_laced View Post
Regarding your issue of the electric disturbances, it cannot happen if your tank has threat. Here is how it works:

At beginning of Defensive Systems, a disturbance goes on a random member, including stormcaller tank. At the end of the cast is the knockback and the 1st disturbance will be dropped where the tank was standing provided he had threat. If he doesn't, the disturbance is dropped inside the shield because it is on one of the dps and wipes the raid.

No, it doesn't work that way.

Defensive systems is every 20% (doesn't matter which tank hits 80%, 60%, 40% 20%, it triggers defensive systems) you can actually push DPS enough to only have one double destruction go out per phase.

The Lightning spires outside of defensive mode on 8 man hits one person at range, and if only one person is at range it will always hit just that person. Same with the heatseeking missiles. And on 16 man it's 2 people.

You should have 1 person at range who can cleanse themselves on 8 man, and 2 people in 16 man. Lightning spire, move, heatseeking missiles, cleanse, move, rinse and repeat the whole fight all operatives, mercenaries and sorcerers can do this, DPS or heal spec, either way. Everyone else can stand on the tanks and never have to move (except your double destruction soakers)

If you push to the defensive phase right when a spire goes out it may look like it's random and on a tank but it's not. It won't actually start casting on the tank itself until he begins the defensive phase.
Hardpeck - Arsenal Mercenary
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alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
04.23.2012 , 05:42 PM | #29
Iandayen (or Hardpeck, whichever you prefer), could you clarify a bit more on how you deal with Incinerate armour on 16m Hardmode. My guilds starting HM tomorrow, but I like to be prepared for future fights.

From what I understand Firebrand has a long cast for Incinerate Armour (as on Story), so the melee dps should taunt Firebrand during the cast? and then I (the tank) taunt back after the cast is finished?I assume this is right, but in your post you wrote:

The powertech dps should taunt firebrand during double destruction and then the tank taunts back during cast? Maybe I misunderstood :P its late over here in the UK, but I'd really appreciate some more detail on this, as it seems like a much better way of dealing with the debuff than Tank swaps between Stormcaller and Firebrand.
Ofcourse it relies on having either a powertech dps or I guess a jug/marauder could work too (popping their CDs), but on 16man well almost definitely have this.
Kazar - Powertech, [Tomb of Freedom Nadd EU]

Iandayen's Avatar


Iandayen
04.23.2012 , 05:47 PM | #30
Whoever he has targeted when he starts the cast gets incinerate armor.

So your DPS has to taunt before the cast, then mid cast the tank can taunt back.

Classes that can taunt in DPS spec.

Powertech
Assassin
Juggernaught
Hardpeck - Arsenal Mercenary
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