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Let's STOP the spread of misinformation about operative DPS (high OR low!)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Let's STOP the spread of misinformation about operative DPS (high OR low!)
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Furiasara's Avatar


Furiasara
04.15.2012 , 02:21 AM | #1
There's SO much misinformation on here about how much DPS operatives can do, even in a vacuum situation(on dummies).

First of all, so many people are posting their supposed numbers but either aren't providing screenshot proof or aren't attacking the proper OPERATION test dummy. If you are attacking any other test dummy, you ARE NOT getting an accurate reading of how much DPS you are truly capable of.

Secondly, we have NOT seen proof that operatives are within 5% of Marauders like we are SUPPOSED to be. To claim that we have is 100% misinformation. Until an operative is posting proof that they are hitting the OPERATION dummy for 1500 DPS, then they ARE NOT doing within 5% of Marauders, because that's what marauders do.

I feel like this post is going to fall on deaf ears or instantly get trolled but if we, as a community of the operative class, want to improve and spread awareness of our state, we need to stop posting misinformation such as word of mouth reports of doing so and so amount of DPS with no proof to back it up and start getting accurate information out there so that IF we are too weak at DPS, we can start to pressure bioware to fix us and if we are FINE at DPS and really within 5% of marauders, that we can show that too.

Here's a example from the marauder forums:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=410056
This has screenshot proof of DPS vs the proper target dummies.

Compare it to this from our own forum:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=409392
Despite being 5 pages long with a dozen 'reports' of certain DPS, there's not a single screenshot to back any of it up and the numbers are ALL over the place.

Mortix's Avatar


Mortix
04.15.2012 , 04:43 AM | #3
and here's another one with higher dps,4 min parse.
http://i39.tinypic.com/egecyf.jpg
Mortix - PvP officer of <Exterminatus>
http://exterminatus.eu/portal.php?action=forum

xdivinexdawnx's Avatar


xdivinexdawnx
04.15.2012 , 08:26 AM | #4
http://i39.tinypic.com/2w3rkg5.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/105rxhk.jpg

I had trouble getting the original image the right size. I don't think anyone can read it so i posted just the parser on the second image.

I messed up my rotation and it lowered a bit when i stopped attacking but i can sustain around 1350-1400 or so 3 minutes into the fight.

Valexandria's Avatar


Valexandria
04.15.2012 , 09:06 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Furiasara View Post
-snip-
I love you, you are so right. That other thread is nothing but people bickering with no data to back it up.

Let's get this thread filled with a ton of actually screenshotted data so we can prove one way or another how our damage is.
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzoV View Post
Because if Jedi were Kryptonians (Superman) IA Operatives would be stealthy Batman with a Kryptonite shiv.

Hextasy's Avatar


Hextasy
04.15.2012 , 10:43 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Valexandria View Post
I love you, you are so right. That other thread is nothing but people bickering with no data to back it up.

Let's get this thread filled with a ton of actually screenshotted data so we can prove one way or another how our damage is.
Dangerous way of trying to prove something.

Target dummies don't take circumstances in content (e.g. but not limited to operations) into account such as but not limited to player skill, raid buffs, debuffs on boss, AoE, movement, target switching, (partial) downtime due to range, utility, RNG (e.g. crit). To be fair, it does factor in relevant circumstances a sim would generally not such as UI lag (tho one could argue this is player skill which SimC does take into account).

To quote Elitistjerks shadow priest 4.3 FAQ:

Quote:
Q: I changed my spec, and on a training dummy my new spec gives me more DPS!
A: What you do on a training dummy is irrelevant, not only is your sample data far too small to rule out RNG, you're also missing lots of buffs/target debuffs that will change the way certain talents perform.
Perfectly valid here, so you should take the parses with a huge grain of salt.

Besides, if a screenshot proves to you what a text quote does not then the obvious flaw is your misplaced trust in a screenshot. Newsflash: screenshots can be manipulated.

I'm far more interested in raw logs tho they'd require a log parser which is a complex piece of software. Target dummies are far too unreliable to provide any meaningful numbers.

Valexandria's Avatar


Valexandria
04.15.2012 , 10:51 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Hextasy View Post
Dangerous way of trying to prove something.

Target dummies don't take circumstances in content (e.g. but not limited to operations) into account such as but not limited to player skill, raid buffs, debuffs on boss, AoE, movement, target switching, (partial) downtime due to range, utility, RNG (e.g. crit). To be fair, it does factor in relevant circumstances a sim would generally not such as UI lag (tho one could argue this is player skill which SimC does take into account).

To quote Elitistjerks shadow priest 4.3 FAQ:

Perfectly valid here, so you should take the parses with a huge grain of salt.

Besides, if a screenshot proves to you what a text quote does not then the obvious flaw is your misplaced trust in a screenshot. Newsflash: screenshots can be manipulated.

I'm far more interested in raw logs tho they'd require a log parser which is a complex piece of software. Target dummies are far too unreliable to provide any meaningful numbers.
No where in my post did I state training dummy logs. OP/FP logs will be the most beneficial.

Also it's not misplace trust in screenshots. It's misplace trust in my fellow man to make up numbers to prove what they want to prove. Yes screenshots can be doctored. But until there are sites like world of logs, then I'll take a screenshot over "OPs can do 1400 they are fine."

Now let's get back to posting parses. We can bicker in the other thread.
Quote: Originally Posted by HanzoV View Post
Because if Jedi were Kryptonians (Superman) IA Operatives would be stealthy Batman with a Kryptonite shiv.

Marak's Avatar


Marak
04.15.2012 , 12:07 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by xdivinexdawnx View Post
http://i39.tinypic.com/2w3rkg5.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/105rxhk.jpg

I had trouble getting the original image the right size. I don't think anyone can read it so i posted just the parser on the second image.

I messed up my rotation and it lowered a bit when i stopped attacking but i can sustain around 1350-1400 or so 3 minutes into the fight.
This is a bit more promising. Moar parses like these please.

Anbokr's Avatar


Anbokr
04.15.2012 , 12:12 PM | #9
I love how you state stop spreading misinformation guys, BUT operatives are not within 5% of marauders (who do 1500). Lol ok, waltz over to the sentinel thread and look through all those parses (granted, we don't know the skill levels of the players); however, most fell within the 1100-1200 range with the highest being around maybe 1400? I've seen several operatives already post pics of them hitting 1300-1400; I'm pretty sure that's within 5% of the marauder. Maybe with bloodthirst on a 1 minute test a marauder can hit 1500, but bloodthirst gets normalized in operations (so a bad thing to involve in a target dummy test).

Anyhow, I'm going to run some parses on my operative and marauder later tonight (granted my marauder has much better gear) to quantify the differences for myself.
Keller's Void
<The GAF Empire>
Priapus (Empire) - 50 Marauder
Harck (Empire) - 50 Agent

goulet's Avatar


goulet
04.15.2012 , 12:41 PM | #10
all of the parses i've seen posted have been conducted on target dummies, which is the worst means of testing the real applications of dps in a raid or pvp environment. The problem with a dummy and trying to determine at where you lie compared to a marauder is A: energy management, B: having to move and agents not having a gap closer.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, then to type on your keyboard and remove all doubt."