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Lackluster mechanics in the flashpoints?


Nihenna's Avatar


Nihenna
12.17.2011 , 07:25 AM | #1
First of all, I love this game, it's star wars, it's an MMO and it's a lot of fun blasting things away, especially in pvp and in class quests.

I do have a big problem however, the mechanics of the bosses in the flashpoints, the mechanics are no more advanced than most MMOs started off with back in early 00's, I have done Black Talon, Hammerstation and Athiss so far, and no boss has been more advanced than tank and spank and kill a few non elite adds that spawn.

I also played Rift, it's dead now thanks to not having any proper endgame content, the first tier of raids could be compared to the easier bosses in Molten Core, WoW, and now, one year later, the game is still no more advanced than Blackwing Lair in WoW was, in 2011!

Sadly, the raids in this game seem to suffer from the same problem, mostly being tank and spank with 1, maybe 2 simple mechanics to watch out from.

This is not a Q_Q-thread, but more a thread of concern because of experience, why does every new MMO on the market have to start with having instances with mechanics/scripting/design that belongs to MMO's back in 2000-2004? It's 2011, having fifty tank and spank fights is not fun for everybody, even completely new people to the genre wants more than that.

Bioware, you've done a great job with the outdoor levelling, pvping and general class mechanics, please don't let the game slip on endgame content simply because you're too lazy to make proper mechanics for each fight, you should have the knowledge, and most of all DARE, to make fights from the start as mechanically challenging as let's say Alyszrazor from the firelands in WoW on heroic which is a mechanical masterpiece, just with tuned down numbers.

Starsunder's Avatar


Starsunder
12.17.2011 , 12:13 PM | #2
It took almost a year for WOW to even put in endgame content lol.

Then it was over tuned and took months to get things done..

Also the flash points you have done are like Dead Mines and Wailing Caverns on wow.

It's a new game and it will likely take the devs years to work out things that can be done with the engine mechanic wise. Give it time.
The Dark Hand
Casualcore PVE Raiding Guild | Giradda the Hutt Server

Buffalufacus's Avatar


Buffalufacus
12.17.2011 , 12:20 PM | #3
In defense, have you done any wow dungeons lately? there are 2 rules 1. don't stand in stuff on the ground (unless it heals you) 2. If something is coming at you kill it .

Same things in ToR, which I am fine with, b/c it has not been the same thing for 7 years now.

I love the bosses, Hammer Station last boss is not easy if you have an incompetent group, Athiss last boss is also difficult if your group isnt good. Now I haven't done much past Taral V or Operations but simple will be nice to get people to subscribe and feel like they can do raids, then in future expansion make the ops. tougher and more complex and you're good to go
"All the way to Alderaan"

Haemoth's Avatar


Haemoth
12.17.2011 , 02:56 PM | #4
OP pls name me some early instances on WoW who require more than tank and spank

Ytnim's Avatar


Ytnim
12.17.2011 , 03:03 PM | #5
It's because no one has the skills to complete harder mechanics at that point in the game yet.

When I say skills, I mean abilities, not personal skill.

The first dungeons only need dps because there are no tanks or healers at the level it is meant for, tanks for instance don't get their tanking "stance" until 14.

Hammer station only just has healers and tanks with their most basic abilities, tanks for example have their stance and a taunt and that's about it.

I haven't done Athiss yet but I would assume it is a continuation of easing players into their roles, actually teaching them how to play outside of saying "you're a healer, press 3 when someone gets below 50% health" in a tutorial tip.

Saying that, it may scale slowly, and so have some more basic elements until the operations or last flashpoints but I think thus far it is doing it's job of teaching the players how to play the game in a group scenario.

Revanmug's Avatar


Revanmug
12.17.2011 , 04:33 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Nihenna View Post
Sadly, the raids in this game seem to suffer from the same problem, mostly being tank and spank with 1, maybe 2 simple mechanics to watch out from.

This is not a Q_Q-thread, but more a thread of concern because of experience, why does every new MMO on the market have to start with having instances with mechanics/scripting/design that belongs to MMO's back in 2000-2004? It's 2011, having fifty tank and spank fights is not fun for everybody, even completely new people to the genre wants more than that.

Bioware, you've done a great job with the outdoor levelling, pvping and general class mechanics, please don't let the game slip on endgame content simply because you're too lazy to make proper mechanics for each fight, you should have the knowledge, and most of all DARE, to make fights from the start as mechanically challenging as let's say Alyszrazor from the firelands in WoW on heroic which is a mechanical masterpiece, just with tuned down numbers.
You could be right that operation are boring tank n spank. I haven't done them yet but... I doubt you did either. You are telling me you already have 8/16 person at lvl 50 and did those operation? damn! That's hot!

Also, if you think Alysrazor mechanic are "challenging", you are just bad and nothing will help you... DAMN fire tornado going in my direction? what should I do? Oh ****! Flaming bird is on the left! I should be on the right side of that boulder! I have to press button while flying in those circle in the air! Incredible! Oh and fire is bad! Nobody could realise that!

have fun on fun with Dragon Soul! There is alot of challenging tentacle up there! They are all mostly dangerous also!

Anthya's Avatar


Anthya
12.17.2011 , 04:52 PM | #7
Mechanics progressively increase in difficulty and complexity as you do higher and higher level flashpoints.

They teach you the basic mechanic concepts. Some are obvious PUG killers, even by the 30s.

Shadowmant's Avatar


Shadowmant
12.17.2011 , 05:11 PM | #8
I'd say the low level flashpoint mechanics better than most low level dungeons for MMO's. By the end of the third flashpoint (lv 21) you've seen adds to pickup, adds to avoid, "fire", knockbacks and aggro resets.

Not sure what more you want from low level flashpoints designed to teach people new to MMO's about the game...
Member of Old Republic Dads
http://oldrepublicdads.guildlaunch.com/

Kink's Avatar


Kink
12.17.2011 , 05:16 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Starsunder View Post
It took almost a year for WOW to even put in endgame content lol.

Then it was over tuned and took months to get things done..

Also the flash points you have done are like Dead Mines and Wailing Caverns on wow.

It's a new game and it will likely take the devs years to work out things that can be done with the engine mechanic wise. Give it time.
Ok, firstly... people should stop using the excuse of "When woW was released it was also buggy/unfishing/whatever"

This argument I am afraid holds no water whatsoever. WoW was released what, 7 years or so ago? People learn not only from their own mistakes, but others too. You cant release a buggy PoS and expect it to do well, people are used to playing polished games, release it in a polished finished state, or expect to fail.

So anwyays, having said that, i think while SWTOR is far from perfect, I still think it doesnt fail and I am enjoying myself =). I just think we cant use the same old arguments anymore, MMOs are no longer a "new" thing!

As for bosses..... Here is a link to the final boss fight of directive seven.... i will NOT be doing this with pugs =) and it is not quite tank and spank.

Spoiler

taekwondoboy's Avatar


taekwondoboy
12.17.2011 , 05:26 PM | #10
are you kidding me? have you tried mandalore raiders? if you ask me, that's a pretty challenging fight.