I kinda like all those vs. threads, so there is another one. IMO Bane is a lot better character storywise, and he had much greater role in SW universe. I loved books about him.

Hmm. Two of my favorites going at it.

 

I'd give it to Vader, simply because if you follow the RoT every new generation of the Sith Lineage gets stronger than the previous one.

Hmm. Two of my favorites going at it.

 

I'd give it to Vader, simply because if you follow the RoT every new generation of the Sith Lineage gets stronger than the previous one.

 

This. The whole premise behind the RoT means that Bane is actually the weakest member of the Banite faction.

I would concur with the thoughts here. Bane certainly was not as gifted with a saber. Anikan certainly had enough anger and rage, to equal or better Bane in any contest.

 

Vader gets the nod here.

I would concur with the thoughts here. Bane certainly was not as gifted with a saber. Anikan certainly had enough anger and rage, to equal or better Bane in any contest.

 

Vader gets the nod here.

 

Not as gifted ? Bane could move so fast, raindrops couldn't hit him in a rainstorm. Couple that with his sheer physical strenght, and he'd be MORE than a match for Vader. Especially with his obelisk armor. Also he was much wiser than Vader was.

Not as gifted ? Bane could move so fast, raindrops couldn't hit him in a rainstorm. Couple that with his sheer physical strenght, and he'd be MORE than a match for Vader. Especially with his obelisk armor. Also he was much wiser than Vader was.

 

If Bane could defeat Vader, the Rule of Two meant absolutely nothing, the whole premise was that every successive Sith Lord would be more powerful than the last, Bane couldn't defeat Zannah, Vader scared Sidious.

Not as gifted ? Bane could move so fast, raindrops couldn't hit him in a rainstorm. Couple that with his sheer physical strenght, and he'd be MORE than a match for Vader. Especially with his obelisk armor. Also he was much wiser than Vader was.

 

Smarter? Possibly. I mean, he was smart enough to come up with the Ro2 which in the end was the cause of the fall of the Republic and Jedi.

 

 

Vader beats him in saber combat. Bane used Djem So. Vader was the greatest master of Djem So and mixed his skills with Djem So and Makashi and had his own unofficial form.

Problem is, the Rule of Two was designed to make the Sith Stronger. That does not mean that it was successful. It's just one of many philosophies. Plus there's the fact Sid broke the rules. He didn't challenge Plageuis for control, he killed the man in his sleep. Then Sid took on apprentices that wouldn't surpass him, because he believed he was the epitome of the Rule of Two (also he's a coward and afraid to die). So everyone he took on were just to be used as puppets until the Jedi could be destroyed.

 

Plus the fact Sid, after becoming Emperor, reformed the Imperial Guard, which were all Force Users, to serve as his personal protection. Add in Vader and all of Vader's secret apprentices, and the whole Rule of Two was thrown out the window.

 

Moving on. If this is Darth Bane (not to be confused with Cad Bane) when he had the Orbalisk Armor, then Vader loses. Because Vader can't hurt him. If it's Bane after he loses the Orbalisk's, then I'd still say Bane wins because he learned more and sharpened his skills to compensate for the loss of his near invulnerability. He learned more Force Abilities, including Essence Transfer.

Not as gifted ? Bane could move so fast, raindrops couldn't hit him in a rainstorm. Couple that with his sheer physical strenght, and he'd be MORE than a match for Vader. Especially with his obelisk armor. Also he was much wiser than Vader was.

 

Entire point of RoT is to make the coming sith stronger...

When sidious took control it kind of ended.

 

Oh and a little btw on the text marked with red..

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.." ~ Yoda, pointing out to Luke that muscles don't mean much when compared to the force.

Vader scared Sidious.

 

Vader didn't scare Sidious. Sidious didn't trust Vader.

Edited April 18, 2012 by JohunMorlish

Problem is, the Rule of Two was designed to make the Sith Stronger. That does not mean that it was successful. It's just one of many philosophies. Plus there's the fact Sid broke the rules. He didn't challenge Plageuis for control, he killed the man in his sleep. Then Sid took on apprentices that wouldn't surpass him, because he believed he was the epitome of the Rule of Two (also he's a coward and afraid to die). So everyone he took on were just to be used as puppets until the Jedi could be destroyed.

 

Plus the fact Sid, after becoming Emperor, reformed the Imperial Guard, which were all Force Users, to serve as his personal protection. Add in Vader and all of Vader's secret apprentices, and the whole Rule of Two was thrown out the window.

 

Moving on. If this is Darth Bane (not to be confused with Cad Bane) when he had the Orbalisk Armor, then Vader loses. Because Vader can't hurt him. If it's Bane after he loses the Orbalisk's, then I'd still say Bane wins because he learned more and sharpened his skills to compensate for the loss of his near invulnerability. He learned more Force Abilities, including Essence Transfer.

 

Did you even read the Plagueis novel? Plagueis didn't challenge his master for control, either, he killed him in an opportune moment by taking advantage of the situation. The Rule of Two was thrown out the window after Palpatine killed Plagueis because the whole premise of it was for the Sith to get stronger every generation until they were finally able to destroy the Jedi and the Republic. That was the Grand Plan, and the whole reason the Rule of Two existed. Once the Grand Plan was accomplished (Order 66 and Palpatine crowned Emperor) the Rule of Two was no longer necessary, it was superfluous. Vader is, easily, the second most powerful Sith to ever exist (I don't count Jacen Solo as a Sith and Abeloth does not believe in the Sith Code), his willpower, physical strength and Lightsaber skills combined with his mastery of Telekinetic combat made him an absolutely unstoppable juggernaut on the field of battle. There's a reason the Sith Juggernaut is modeled after Darth Vader and not Darth Bane. Bane needed the Orbalisks to be invincible, all Vader needed was his hate.

Bane was a master of lightning if I remember correctly, which would make it no contest since lightning would completely destroy vader.

 

If we're talking about pre-mustafar vader i think vader would have the upper hand simply because he was the most powerfull force user (or at least in potential) ever.

Bane was a master of lightning if I remember correctly, which would make it no contest since lightning would completely destroy vader.

 

If we're talking about pre-mustafar vader i think vader would have the upper hand simply because he was the most powerfull force user (or at least in potential) ever.

 

Vader's suit was pretty much impervious to Force Lightening. He took a blast from Galen Marek that was supercharged by two Lightening Pylons to the chest and stood right back up. The only reason that Emperor Palpatine's lightening killed him is A) His hand was cut off B) His hate was no longer sustaining him and C) It was Emperor Freaking Palpatine, who has the strongest Force Lightening in the entire Stare Wars Galaxy. Bane is absolutely nothing compared to Palpatine.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Aximand

To me, it's slightly sad that people are comparing things this way. Everyone is assuming that because Palpatine was the one to overthrow the Jedi, somehow that means he's better or more powerful then Bane. The truth? The Jedi Order had deteriorated an incredible amount over three millenia. Not disparaging Palpatine's accomplishment, but he didn't conquer the Jedi with the dark side. He didn't conquer the Jedi with lightsaber skills. He conquered the Jedi through political machinations and getting clones to do his dirty work for him. The pillar of this argument is that Vader was more powerful than Palpatine because of the Rule of Two. The Rule of Two was not, in fact, created to make the Sith more and more powerful. It was created to make sure that no unworthy successors would take control of the Sith and wreck them like Kaan did. Bane would have been pleased at the end result of the line of Ro2 Sith. He would still have mopped the floor with Palpatine and then beat him over the head with Vader. Does anyone even think, even for a moment, that Galen Marek's lightning was anywhere near as powerful as Bane's?

To me, it's slightly sad that people are comparing things this way. Everyone is assuming that because Palpatine was the one to overthrow the Jedi, somehow that means he's better or more powerful then Bane. The truth? The Jedi Order had deteriorated an incredible amount over three millenia. Not disparaging Palpatine's accomplishment, but he didn't conquer the Jedi with the dark side. He didn't conquer the Jedi with lightsaber skills. He conquered the Jedi through political machinations and getting clones to do his dirty work for him. The pillar of this argument is that Vader was more powerful than Palpatine because of the Rule of Two. The Rule of Two was not, in fact, created to make the Sith more and more powerful. It was created to make sure that no unworthy successors would take control of the Sith and wreck them like Kaan did. Bane would have been pleased at the end result of the line of Ro2 Sith. He would still have mopped the floor with Palpatine and then beat him over the head with Vader. Does anyone even think, even for a moment, that Galen Marek's lightning was anywhere near as powerful as Bane's?

 

Uhm. The Jedi Order during the Phantom Menace - Revenge of the Sith era was the strongest it had ever been in the history of the Order. There was no deterioration going on. And Palpatine is Canonically the most powerful Sith to ever exist, he mastered all known Dark Side Force powers and invented new ones at his leisure. That's Canon. Bane is insignificant next to Palpatine. And no one has ever said that Vader was more powerful than Palpatine (that I've read), but the Rule of Two was constructed in such a way that every successive apprentice would overthrow their master once they had achieved the skill and ability to do so. Darth Zannah did so when she killed Bane, Plagueis did so when he killed Tennebrous and it all culminated in Palpatine when he fried Plagueis after learning everything that he could. That's Canon. Had Vader not been limited psychologically and emotionally, he would have surpassed Palpatine and cast him down to continue the Sith in his own fashion.

 

The only reason that Palpatine even took on an Apprentice in Anakin/Vader is because he wanted to, for both sentimental purposes and so he would have an eventual target for Essence Transfer. Vader and Palpatine are the culmination of the Rule of Two. They overthrew the Republic and destroyed the Jedi Order, after that was accomplished the Rule of Two was no longer needed, and in true Sith fashion it was discarded as useless. And you're wrong about the reason the Rule of Two existed, partially, it existed to make sure that each successive apprentice was stronger than their master (thus the overthrowing of said masters) and to prevent Sith teachings from being diluted and lost among wide spread apprentices and masters. Also so that the Sith could move in the shadows, without the knowledge of the Jedi and the threat of being hunted down.

All I Can see from some people is more Vader wankery. 2nd most powerful Sith? The guy is not even in the top 10. And don't give me the "He can choke through a holoviewer" BS. We see that happen several times in the TOR game by other Sith Lords who aren't even Big Game in the grand scheme of things. Whatever Anakin/Vader was supposed to become, he never became it. Again, those whole numbers of "2xSid" and "80% Sid" are completely meaningless. There is no value given to every Force user and the only time a number was ever mentioned was for Anakin, which formally introduced Midichlorians to the lore, which just made everyone want to kick Lucas' teeth in. He was essentially trying to introduce Power Levels to the SWU. Which was absurd. Especially when you give it to only One Character.

 

Also you can forget the "Vader is more skilled". Vader was Forced to adapt his fighting style because of his limited mobility. Bane mastered All Seven Lightsaber Forms and primarily used Djem So because...the man stood almost 2m tall and was built like a brick S***house. Djem So is about strength and power. Bane had that in abundance.

 

So, even if we could say their saber skills were about equal, Bane still was more learned in the ways of the Force and has more up his sleeve to use than Vader does.

All I Can see from some people is more Vader wankery. 2nd most powerful Sith? The guy is not even in the top 10. And don't give me the "He can choke through a holoviewer" BS. We see that happen several times in the TOR game by other Sith Lords who aren't even Big Game in the grand scheme of things. Whatever Anakin/Vader was supposed to become, he never became it. Again, those whole numbers of "2xSid" and "80% Sid" are completely meaningless. There is no value given to every Force user and the only time a number was ever mentioned was for Anakin, which formally introduced Midichlorians to the lore, which just made everyone want to kick Lucas' teeth in. He was essentially trying to introduce Power Levels to the SWU. Which was absurd. Especially when you give it to only One Character.

 

Also you can forget the "Vader is more skilled". Vader was Forced to adapt his fighting style because of his limited mobility. Bane mastered All Seven Lightsaber Forms and primarily used Djem So because...the man stood almost 2m tall and was built like a brick S***house. Djem So is about strength and power. Bane had that in abundance.

 

So, even if we could say their saber skills were about equal, Bane still was more learned in the ways of the Force and has more up his sleeve to use than Vader does.

 

all of the above, vader/anakin had the potential to become the most powerful force user ever but never became this and afterwards was severly handicapped, any of the great sith/jedi (maybe even lesser) of the past would have been able to handle him

all of the above, vader/anakin had the potential to become the most powerful force user ever but never became this and afterwards was severly handicapped, any of the great sith/jedi (maybe even lesser) of the past would have been able to handle him

 

So then how come 8 jedi(a few of them masters) from the prime of the jedi, couldn't beat him? If they couldn't then I really doubt any Old Republic jedi/sith would.

Edited April 18, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

So then how come 8 jedi(a few of them masters) from the prime of the jedi, couldn't beat him? If they couldn't then I really doubt any Old Republic jedi/sith would.

 

were comparing greats to greats here right? ill take back my comment about lesser ancient jedi/sith being able to beat him because even a 80% vader is still better then 90% of the "normal" jedi/sith but the real greats would have kicked his ***.

"Prime of the Jedi" is suggestive, not definitive. Also, it's a bogus statement proven wrong by a series of Evidence from the KotoR/TOR eras. We had Jedi sealing Dark Side power into singular points on planets, creating Force Shields that could stop lesser Turbolaser fire, block lightsabers using Wood, among many other things. Master Arka who fought off the Force Ghost of Freedon Nadd. Nomi Sunrider who could sever ones connection to the Force. Bastila's Battle Meditation which affected fleets. Zayne Carrick and his Reverse-Luck deal, which turned a 50-50 chance into "You're screwed" just by being near him. And still much, much more.

 

What'd PT Jedi have? Yoda had TK and Mace had Shatterpoint. Other than that they had the same Base Level force abilities as every other Jedi. PT Jedi weren't the Prime, they were the Low End in terms of powers and abilities. Luke's order revived all the hax stuff.

Rule of Two was over when Palpitine needed to get his master drunk and wait till he passed out to kill him for ..........

A. He knew he couldn't beat him

B. Would have been really badly hurt after the fight

 

Goes into more and more how Palpitine was a coward . He did not fear Vader nor did he teach him anything . He was always looking for someone stronger and undamaged to take Vader's place .....Galen , Luke .....

 

Rule of Two kept Sith strong and weak at the same time . If they let worthy Apprentices be Masters without needing to kill the Master , their numbers would be larger and Sith empire would have never been defeated but nothing is honorable about the sith .

Edited April 19, 2012 by mefit

We really need a battle sim for these kinds of threads, that would settle most arguments.

It's got to be Darth bane all the way if he doesn't kill you he'll get you to kill your self.

"Prime of the Jedi" is suggestive, not definitive. Also, it's a bogus statement proven wrong by a series of Evidence from the KotoR/TOR eras. We had Jedi sealing Dark Side power into singular points on planets, creating Force Shields that could stop lesser Turbolaser fire, block lightsabers using Wood, among many other things. Master Arka who fought off the Force Ghost of Freedon Nadd. Nomi Sunrider who could sever ones connection to the Force. Bastila's Battle Meditation which affected fleets. Zayne Carrick and his Reverse-Luck deal, which turned a 50-50 chance into "You're screwed" just by being near him. And still much, much more.

 

What'd PT Jedi have? Yoda had TK and Mace had Shatterpoint. Other than that they had the same Base Level force abilities as every other Jedi. PT Jedi weren't the Prime, they were the Low End in terms of powers and abilities. Luke's order revived all the hax stuff.

 

Its a direct statement from George Lucas himself. If he says that that was the prime of the Jedi Order, there is no arguing against it. Opinions are nice, but they have absolutely no basis in Canon debates.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Aximand

Entire point of RoT is to make the coming sith stronger...

When sidious took control it kind of ended.

 

Oh and a little btw on the text marked with red..

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.." ~ Yoda, pointing out to Luke that muscles don't mean much when compared to the force.

 

Then why do people keep dragging up the point of Vader's strenght and powerful blows ?