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DPS parser statistics, maybe the nerf wasn't so bad.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
DPS parser statistics, maybe the nerf wasn't so bad.

Crittlesticks's Avatar


Crittlesticks
04.13.2012 , 12:45 PM | #1
So with the release of the combat logging system with 1.2, one of the first things I did was install a combat log parser and start fiddling with my DPS rotation.

I tried both Lethality and Concealment specs.

On both specs, the highest percentage of my damage was coming from poison damage, so keeping up your corrosive dart and acid blade / corrosive grenade is essential.

The specs I was using may need some tweaking, but overall I find them to be pretty sound.

Concealment: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#40...odzRduoZhMoz.1
Lethality: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#401bfZhZhMrkrMhdGR.1

Overall, I found that believe it or not, I was getting higher DPS from concealment. Keep in mind that all of these numbers are coming from the operation level training dummy on fleet. As such you have to remember that this is the "optimal" situation where I am not being targeted by anything, having to move out form behind the boss or having to chase down adds or anything like that.

for concealment I was averaging about 1400 dps. It would spike to over 1500 when I had adrenals / damage trinkets popped. I played with the power trinket and the critical / surge one, but ultimately I was getting higher DPS with my matrix cube and energy damage on hit relic. I currently have rull Rakata enforcer gear, and have removed the non-essential enhancements that were putting me way above the accuracy soft cap. I replaced these with the enhancement from sith warrior main hand / off hand rakata pieces which give endurance, critical and surge.

I was using the following rotation.

1.) Hidden Strike - I would always open up with Hidden Strike if available. Always used with Acid Blade
2.) Rifle Shot - If I was getting close to 60-70% energy.
3.) Shiv - for Stim Boost and to get TA stacks for the damage buff.
4.) Stim Boost - Keep this refreshed at all times, try not to refresh it with more than 1-2 second remaining.
5.) Backstab - Always use this with Acid Blade. There is a DPS increase when allowing the damage of acid blade's poison to finish when used with the initial Hidden Strike rather than re-applying immediately with Acid Blade / Backstab. Since it just refreshes and you lose out on additional damage ticks.
6.) Corrosive Dart - Keep this up at all times.
7.) Shiv - to maintain TA stacks and for Laceration.
8.) Laceration - Do not, do not, do not use this if you do not have a poison effect on the target.

Lethality was still pretty good, and it was a little bit more forgiving. Due to IA's having a high critical strike rating you are not normally deprived of energy when speccing lethality, whereas if you are running concealment if you make to many mistakes in your DPS rotation, you can very quickly become overzealous with your lacerations and find yourself running dry on energy.

Lethality was pulling a pretty steady 1275-1300 DPS with the following rotation.

1.) Shiv - to proc my initial TA
2.) Stim Boost - always keeping this refreshed and trying not to refresh with more than 1-2 seconds remaining.
3.) Rifle Shot - If I was getting close to 60-70% energy
4.) Weakening Blast - Keep this refreshed as much as possible, but when culling I would notice the stacks would often fall off faster than the cooldown would refresh
5.) Corrosive Dart - Keep this refreshed
6.) Corrosive Grenade - Same as Dart
7.) Shiv - To maintain the damage buff from TA or to Cull
8.) Cull - Make sure you have both poisons and Weaking Blast up before using Cull, also try not to use up your last TA using Cull unless your shiv is coming off cooldown and you have the energy level to use Cull x 2 and another Shiv.

So while I was not amazed by the DPS numbers by any means, I am sure there are ways I can improve up on my decision making when it comes to skill priority, but I believe that this does go to show that operatives are a legitimate source of DPS in raids and should not be overlooked. While snipers in my guild were getting slightly higher DPS, maybe 100 more, I don't remember all of the numbers I was getting from different people in my guild last night.

Ultimately, the operative class is easy to play difficult to master, and I believe that with the proper skill rotation, cooldown management and stat distribution, that a lot of the operative I see complaining on the forums can improve. Making them feel less slighted by bioware when it comes to their class and DPS'ing and instead work on improving their play so that they can perform optimally and achieve the highest DPS results possible. I will continue to gather more pertinent DPS information when we finish clearing the new operation and put together a more in-depth analysis here as well as on the sithwarrior.com forums.

Anyone else have any numbers that they have pulled from their DPS meters so we can check for consistency? I am currently using the MOX damage parser that can be found here.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
04.13.2012 , 12:54 PM | #2
I was finding similar numbers as Lethality on the training dummy as well. Doing an actual instance dropped down much lower though, because of the need to stop and move, getting frozen/knocked back, all that fun stuff. I'll give Concealment a try again for the first time in a while soon (I've already respecced 3 times since yesterday for various reasons, I don't know want the cost to get too high). I actually enjoy Concealment more but the positional issues and melee unfriendly encounters pushed me out of it.

The sad thing though, is that my fresh 50 MM Sniper with oranges, blues and greens pulled almost the same numbers as my Operative with mostly Rakata on the dummy.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Crittlesticks's Avatar


Crittlesticks
04.13.2012 , 12:58 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
I was finding similar numbers as Lethality on the training dummy as well. Doing an actual instance dropped down much lower though, because of the need to stop and move, getting frozen/knocked back, all that fun stuff. I'll give Concealment a try again for the first time in a while soon (I've already respecced 3 times since yesterday for various reasons, I don't know want the cost to get too high). I actually enjoy Concealment more but the positional issues and melee unfriendly encounters pushed me out of it.

The sad thing though, is that my fresh 50 MM Sniper with oranges, blues and greens pulled almost the same numbers as my Operative with mostly Rakata on the dummy.
I did notice that snipers were getting slightly higher DPS as I mentioned in my post, and I in fact also tried out the dummy with my fresh level 50 marauder, and he was only pulling slightly lower DPS than out guilds Rakata geared marauder. I don't have enough data yet to make a sound conclusion, but it seems like its about the same for all classes / advanced classes.

One thing I have been noticing about concealment, is that in operations your overall DPS does not drop all that much, since it is more of a "bursty" spec. Whereas if I have to move around a lot when using lethality it is difficult to get my poisons to tick for the entire duration, that or I have to switch targets a lot which is not optimal.

I firmly believe that even with the not so melee friendly boss fights that concealment is still the way to go for the best OPS dps. It just forces you to be more situationally aware.

GeoLager's Avatar


GeoLager
04.13.2012 , 01:04 PM | #4
Maybe if you're competing against yourself it isn't so bad.

Throw in a marauder or assassin into the mix, you become an injured horse in that race.

You know what they do to injured horses? They put them down for good.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
04.13.2012 , 01:07 PM | #5
Yeah, it's hard to compare to characters with different gear. But I recall as a fresh 50 operative my damage was really crappy (all of us were in my guild, we couldn't beat enrage timers in our first HMs) but in a weak of gearing the difference was huge.

The worst part about Lethality is trying to keep an eye on those TINY LITTLE DOT ICONS.

What I would give for the new UI customization to allow resizing of just certain buff/debuff icons.

I've also never really been clear on whether Lethality benefits from more Accuracy than Concealment or not.


Quote: Originally Posted by GeoLager View Post
Maybe if you're competing against yourself it isn't so bad.

Throw in a marauder or assassin into the mix, you become an injured horse in that race.

You know what they do to injured horses? They put them down for good.
Good thing I'm a person among friends in a guild and not a race horse
We learnd a long time ago that you benefit more from bringing the player rather than the class.

We haven't had issues beating enrage timers in HM/NMM so there's no need to be picky.
However, I am personally sensitive about my own damage so I'll make changes where necessary, even if my guild never would.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Crittlesticks's Avatar


Crittlesticks
04.13.2012 , 01:10 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by GeoLager View Post
Maybe if you're competing against yourself it isn't so bad.

Throw in a marauder or assassin into the mix, you become an injured horse in that race.

You know what they do to injured horses? They put them down for good.
This mentality is exactly what I am talking about. I don't understand how people can really compare or expect an operatives DPS to be exactly the same or higher than a class like a marauder. The Marauder class has one purpose, to DPS. Operatives on the other hand can if needed help top off a tank, or throw a heal or two if everyone is taking burst AOE damage, while marauders cannot, same goes for snipers. You cannot realistically compare a pure DPS class to a hybrid and expect the pure damage numbers to be equal, how would that be fair for people that play Marauders or Snipers? As for assassins...given that both players are playing at the same skill level, the DPS increase that I have been seeing were minimal at best between an operative and an assassin.

GeoLager's Avatar


GeoLager
04.13.2012 , 01:16 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Crittlesticks View Post
This mentality is exactly what I am talking about. I don't understand how people can really compare or expect an operatives DPS to be exactly the same or higher than a class like a marauder. The Marauder class has one purpose, to DPS. Operatives on the other hand can if needed help top off a tank, or throw a heal or two if everyone is taking burst AOE damage, while marauders cannot, same goes for snipers. You cannot realistically compare a pure DPS class to a hybrid and expect the pure damage numbers to be equal, how would that be fair for people that play Marauders or Snipers? As for assassins...given that both players are playing at the same skill level, the DPS increase that I have been seeing were minimal at best between an operative and an assassin.

You don't seem to understand class balance.


If one class is vastly superior to another in a phase of the game, the inferior class gets chalked up as useless.

This is pertinent when you start talking about thinks like enrage timers or dps races.

You would not want to bring an inferior dps to an encounter where there are certain requirements to meet. And if you meet the requirements, the superior class is also prefered because it allows for room for error.




This happens in every MMO, and SWTOR is not some abnormality from this formula. If classes cannot be competitive, they are not viable.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
04.13.2012 , 01:16 PM | #8
I'm pretty sure Bioware has stated that they don't believe in the hybrid tax. So I don't believe any class is supposed to be expected to be considerably lower in damage.

Hybrids are pvp problem - being a jack of all trades, master of none in PVE group settings hurts more than it helps most of the time.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

GeoLager's Avatar


GeoLager
04.13.2012 , 01:24 PM | #9
Part of the reason why WoW went into the crapper was because class balance got seriously screwed up.

In PvE, WoW had mages dominating everyone, melee was only brought for interrupts, rogues were kept artificially low on dps because of pvp implications and hybrid classes were told to get to the back of the bus.


People left WoW in droves because PvE was no longer fun, even if it was easy.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
04.13.2012 , 01:33 PM | #10
As someone who played and still somewhat plays WoW for over 7 years, I don't believe that was the case at all. Most of the classes have been decently balanced since WOTLK (when they abandoned the idea of the hybrid tax), and the content has gotten extremely casual friendly. I almost always could out-dps our mages on my rogue with the except of certain fights that were extremely melee-penalizing. They did acknowledge those issues and corrected them. There were also always the very melee-favoring fights as well...most of the stuff in Icecrown Citadel was.

Most of my guild left WoW because we just got so sick of the same game, same models, same engine, same mechanics for all those years, and whether you agree or not, a sort of "kiddifying" feeling the game's direction seems to be going in.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant