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Guild Minimum Age Req


MastaZannah's Avatar


MastaZannah
04.13.2012 , 10:06 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kimyrielle View Post
I'd never join a guild NOT having an age requirement of at least 18. The "kids can be mature" crowd is completely missing the point. Yes, kids can be NICE. They can't be MATURE. Maturity isn't about the absence of rude language or Chuck Norris jokes. It's about experience in life. I am 40 years old. I will tell you a secret - I don't want to chat with my guildies about high school, teachers and clubbing. Those topics stopped being remotely interesting for me one or two decades ago. I will talk about work life, running a household, being a parent and stuff like that - which a person under 18 CAN'T have any clue or interest about. That's why I prefer to be in a community with other people in my age bracket. And that's the point behind age requirements and not that people can keep their language in check.
I disagree. For one, I graduated early; I'm a college student majoring in Business Administration right now. I live on my own (well, with a roomate but still outside of my parents' house). I work 35 hours a week, which is reasonably close to full time, and I pay my own bills. They're in my roomate's name, but I pay them on time and the full amount.

No I don't grasp what it is to be a parent, but neither do most 18 year olds- yet they're allowed into the guild while I'm not.

To be honest, I myself don't even talk about my personal life. The game is my... escape. No stress of work and classes and homework and car maintenance and bills (etc). I prefer to talk about anything and everything other than the reality I'm trying to take a break from.
Lost his pants, Obi Wan has. How embarrassing!
Teach him, I cannot. IQ of 30 has he. Hangs upside-down in ice caves.
You might be a redneck jedi if you knew Leia was your sister the whole time

Florial's Avatar


Florial
04.13.2012 , 10:12 AM | #22
Masta, you sound like a mature individual---articulate, well spoken and seem to have a good head on your shoulders Frankly, I would tell a white lie about your age and join the guild that you wanted. I tend to be quite an honest person but I NEVER answer questions about my age. I'm a woman in her middle years and when I'm asked for my age, I tend to say something such as...."A lady never reveals her age." In a few guilds, I've had people get pushy for personal details. I tend to stay away from those guilds and gravitate to the more casual adult guilds.

To answer your question though, I don't enjoy guilds with kids. I've been in many family guilds and I've been in adult ones. I have to say that I prefer the adult ones a bit more. I had a horrid experience in one with a 16 year old kid. He was an excellent player but would be argumentative and confrontational. Because of his nature and immaturity, he didn't know when to back down or to drop it. The guild leader's 47 year old girlfriend decided to mother him and it made it exceedingly uncomfortable for everyone in the guild. She would jump on anyone who said something and took the mother hen approach. Between her and this 16 year old, it was problematic. We had several other kids who were better behaved but when they logged on, the whole tone of guild chat would change.

My worst experience in another MMO happened in a raid with a kid. A father who unfortunately was the raid leader, decided to let his 13ish son join the raid. We were in vent and would hear this kid being sassy to his dad and dominating vent chat. The kid would also get called away by mom (parents were divorced so this game was bonding time for father and son) and would go afk in the middle of fights. Or the kid would barge ahead of the group and cause wipes. The RL would stop and talk to his son---"hey Johnny, look up there at the statues. Come over here and look at this cool view, etc." After a few hours of this, the adults started making snarky comments like, "Isn't it time for Johnny's bedtime soon?" It was disruptive and changed the whole tone of the raid. He kept bringing Johnny to raids and I quit going to them. The guild leaders were too polite to say no to anyone. He would also dominate guild chat and it just became a pain in the butt for everyone. I think that the adults were mostly to blame in this case. Someone should have chatted to the father and laid down some guidelines. The kid was just being a kid.

I'm sure that there are great folks out there under the age of 18 who are polite, helpful and don't cause problems. I had a 13 year old vassal in Asheron's Call 1 and enjoyed playing with him. We played together for many years. He was polite--his parents had very strict boundaries on his internet time. He never cussed, sassed and was a great kid. He actually begged me to be his patron and we had many years of good gaming times. I used to find him neat pieces of armor which he would proudly wear. I can however understand the age requirements in guilds.

MastaZannah's Avatar


MastaZannah
04.13.2012 , 10:13 AM | #23
Expanding on that... what invisible line determines who is a kid and who is not? A law from a country you live in? (I happen to also live in the US, just making a point).

And what about time periods? Why has the of-age requirement risen over the course of time? People were mature enough to be married and govern countries at age 15 at one point in time. (specifically I'm referring to "Henry the young king", who was crowned in June 1170 AD).
Lost his pants, Obi Wan has. How embarrassing!
Teach him, I cannot. IQ of 30 has he. Hangs upside-down in ice caves.
You might be a redneck jedi if you knew Leia was your sister the whole time

Convoi's Avatar


Convoi
04.13.2012 , 10:16 AM | #24
Long story short: People have given you plenty of legal ramifications for why adults and minors should be segregated - ie suggestive or foul language. As for your response of a disclaimer:

1) A minor cannot legally enter a binding contract - hence the disclaimer is null in regards to a minior.

2) You cannot contract away liability past negligence - and as adults curse and use suggestive language with intent and impunity - we would never meet that standard

I will go one further, I have been in guilds that were 21+.

The reason is that we turn every aspect of gaming into a drinking game and again would face legal ramifications if we were encouraging underage drinking.

I know it sucks because age limits set by the government were pretty much arbitrarily set to begin with - but thems the breaks.

What I will tell you is this - barring an unfortunate illness or accident - you will spend more of your life above 18 (or 21) than under it, and one day you will appreciate the safeguards in place. Believe it or not - life gets better!

G_

Kimyrielle's Avatar


Kimyrielle
04.13.2012 , 10:16 AM | #25
In your case that might be true even, but that's because you're ALMOST 18 and really close to satisfy the age requirement. I do agree that it must seem silly to you if you're being rejected for being just a few months too young, but as with all rules, you somewhere have to draw the line and stick to it. If you say that 17.8 years is almost as good as 18 (and you'd be right), the next person would say that 17.6 is almost as good as 17.8 and they'd be right too. Even if it seems to be unfair to you, but it's just as silly that you can have a drink at 20.9 years of age either and have to wait for the remaining weeks to tick off.

MastaZannah's Avatar


MastaZannah
04.13.2012 , 10:21 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Florial View Post

To answer your question though, I don't enjoy guilds with kids. I've been in many family guilds and I've been in adult ones. I have to say that I prefer the adult ones a bit more. I had a horrid experience in one with a 16 year old kid. He was an excellent player but would be argumentative and confrontational. Because of his nature and immaturity, he didn't know when to back down or to drop it. The guild leader's 47 year old girlfriend decided to mother him and it made it exceedingly uncomfortable for everyone in the guild. She would jump on anyone who said something and took the mother hen approach. Between her and this 16 year old, it was problematic. We had several other kids who were better behaved but when they logged on, the whole tone of guild chat would change.

I'm sure that there are great folks out there under the age of 18 who are polite, helpful and don't cause problems. I can however understand the age requirements and try to join them.
That approach is dependent on the GM and his officers' decisions. It comes down to bad leadership if everything you described were happening.

More or less, want I really would like to see happen is that younger individuals be given at least a trial period chance. Only the officers would know his/her actual age; therefore it wouldn't affect the rest of the guild. I can say that for one, out of the last 3 or 4 guilds I've joined, not a single person suspected me of being underage. I'm no try-hard actor, but I'm no instigator either. If one thinks before they speak, it makes a world of difference.
Lost his pants, Obi Wan has. How embarrassing!
Teach him, I cannot. IQ of 30 has he. Hangs upside-down in ice caves.
You might be a redneck jedi if you knew Leia was your sister the whole time

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
04.13.2012 , 10:21 AM | #27
I used not have an age requirement in my guild until recently. I had no problems with 16 year olds until the last couple of months.

Point one:

One of my recruiters was talking to a 16 year old and the first thing out of his mouth was what do I get. She thought he was joking until it became clear he wasn't. He insisted on being given things . Needless to say she said we were not interested.

That should have been the end of it but no he kept sending her messages wanting to know why even though she had explained it to him.


Point two:

Another time she was speaking to another 16 year and wanted to know out our roleplay and if we woul be interested in a jedi "mystic" . She said she would discuss it with me and my co-leader but didn't see the problem until he decided to tell her how our guild should rolepaly our toons.

She explained to him politely at first that no one tells anyone how to roleplay and if he was going to come in doing that then he was not material for our guild. Again she figured it was the end of it but no he kept sending her messages until she got fed up and told him one more message she was going to report him and put him on ignore.


We have yet have had these problems with people over the age of 18. If we say they don't fit our guild they thank us and move on.

We have only had this kind of trouble with 16 years so after all this I have put an age restriction on the guild.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Current Guild Roleplay: Redemption: The battle of Xa Fel https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ps/r-1rAjOuo30

MastaZannah's Avatar


MastaZannah
04.13.2012 , 10:27 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Kimyrielle View Post
In your case that might be true even, but that's because you're ALMOST 18 and really close to satisfy the age requirement. I do agree that it must seem silly to you if you're being rejected for being just a few months too young, but as with all rules, you somewhere have to draw the line and stick to it. If you say that 17.8 years is almost as good as 18 (and you'd be right), the next person would say that 17.6 is almost as good as 17.8 and they'd be right too. Even if it seems to be unfair to you, but it's just as silly that you can have a drink at 20.9 years of age either and have to wait for the remaining weeks to tick off.
When I led that union we came across that rule-bending problem. It comes down to judgement. Yes, in theory they could keep using the "it's close enough" vicious circle to lower the requirements to the point of irrelevance; in practice it's another matter. You make exceptions to the rule, not replacement rules. If you consider 17.8 to be close enough, that does not mean you also consider 14 to be enough.
Lost his pants, Obi Wan has. How embarrassing!
Teach him, I cannot. IQ of 30 has he. Hangs upside-down in ice caves.
You might be a redneck jedi if you knew Leia was your sister the whole time

Convoi's Avatar


Convoi
04.13.2012 , 10:28 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by MastaZannah View Post
Only the officers would know his/her actual age; therefore it wouldn't affect the rest of the guild. I can say that for one, out of the last 3 or 4 guilds I've joined, not a single person suspected me of being underage. I'm no try-hard actor, but I'm no instigator either. If one thinks before they speak, it makes a world of difference.
This is actually worse in my opinion. Because by lying you have de-facto put people at risk of the legal ramifications myself and others have listed.

To begin with - let me explain that not knowing someone was a minor does not protect someone - the state will always protect the minor and states that lack of knowledge is not a valid excuse (ie: the person who hooks up with a minor at a club that is supposed to be over 21 because the minor got in with a fake id - not knowing they were a minor even though you had a valid reason not to suspect them to be is not legitimate in the eyes of the law)

So lets say there is someone over 18 in your guild that makes a romantic connection with you believing you are also over 18. You never disclose your age for fear of losing both the romantic connection and the guild. Your parents find your correspondence with this person and press charges. Do you see how allowing anyone under age creates liability for everyone older.

Its not just about you.

G_

LupieZero's Avatar


LupieZero
04.13.2012 , 10:30 AM | #30
In our guild, we follow the COPPA.
You have to be 13+ since you're required to join our forums.
We DO allow under 13, but they have to have a parent / legal guardian mail / fax a consent form.

For those unfamiliar with COPPA -
http://www.coppa.org/coppa.htm

For other guilds that require 18+ it's usually for similar legal reasons.
Many states etc... it's illegal to use sexual innuendos, drug references etc... with / around minors. And though it might not seem a "big deal" to you, the minor's parents / guardians may not see it the same way.

(For reference, those things are forbidden in our guild's Guild chat, Vent etc... [as well as on the other games / game servers run by the guild's parent orginization].)