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A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

Khoraji's Avatar


Khoraji
04.18.2012 , 02:23 PM | #691
Quote: Originally Posted by MrXen View Post
This is why everyone with a brain knows you are wrong. Geeky number add ups? Lol? Its 3rd grade math literally. Geeky? Are you a 1980's "jock" playing a star wars MMO now "pwning" those "nub geeks"?


There is no theory here, there is no equation, Bioware PROVIDES these numbers, LOOK at your expertise %'s right now in-game and determine their effective result. Guarantee it'll be what I said. Why? Because there is no magic equation, its listed in your character details you incoherent ape.


And from your anecdotal "evidence" of "how you feel in game" my experience is people are dying at fairly the same rate. The fact you attempt to insult me for providing evidence whereas you tell everyone to "believe me because how I feel in-game is truth" is in all honesty giving me a good laugh in my comfy chair here. Thank you, you have boosted my self-esteem today and I feel much better now that I know: at LEAST I'm not you.
I wish there were more people like you on the forums...

Sathid's Avatar


Sathid
04.18.2012 , 02:24 PM | #692
Quote: Originally Posted by MrXen View Post
All I see here is healers whining they can't eliminate the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs in a warzone allowing their team to automatically have a huge advantage...with the biggest advantage going to the team with most healers (up to 8).


Yes pre 1.2 patch 8 healers > any other combo outside of a more skilled 8 healers. You can "argue" that they wouldn't have enough dps to kill anything for an offensive...but you'd be wrong. 8 healers means an invincible team (literally unkillable) meaning they can slowly dish out numbers (that wouldn't be healed by the enemy team). On top of this most pvp maps revolve around DEFENSIVE strategies and not offensive: look at huttball, the guy who can stay alive is the best ball carrier; look at alderaan, the guys who don't die make sure no one caps their points permanently; look at voidstar, you'll never ever break the first door against 8 healers meaning they can only at WORST tie you or win (impossible to lose).


It needed fixed. What happened? Healing got a slap on the wrist and is still beast. So now instead of 1 healer eliminating the effectiveness of 2-4 dps specs it eliminates 1-3, and now we see a bunch of players who are used to being hercules in the warzone capable of fighting 4 men dying to 2 or 3 really good dps freaking out they "can't do anything anymore." Inevitably they will make the argument "think of how YOU won't get heals because we'll all quit" and an estimated 40% will buy that argument, however the intelligent ones know its just a bs ploy to ensure their class+spec combo is better than any of the others.
5 stars couldnt have said it better myself,,,

Dreydin's Avatar


Dreydin
04.18.2012 , 02:29 PM | #693
Quote: Originally Posted by Khoraji View Post
So the guy that starts posting numbers wants to take his toys and go home when he realizes he is completely wrong.

Numbers dont lie. And I do use my eyes, I started off in this thread saying healing is fine because of my own personal experience suggests that nothing is wrong with it. If I can heal fine, my guild mates can heal fine, but you cant...where do you think the problem is?
Actually I didnt go anywhere. And what do you define as doing fine? I still get wins, I still get over 700k healing in PVP matches(voidstar). I am however, not having fun like a lot of people would agree. What I am bringing to light, is the disparity between healing effectiveness and damage output. But keep clinging to your numbers. Numbers dont lie, thats true. But you and other geeks decide which raw figures are to be compared. What about heal activation times, and GCD's. When things die faster, you have to accomodate them into your math, do you not?

I am not a math geek, but I what I am trying to say is, it seems like your math is equivalent to a throughput equation. And its not taking into account the burst aspects.

Let me ask you this, your equation shows you that healing is increased, and mitigation and damage output are the same? So if thats the case, your saying the time to kill has increased? Because healing is better? Whereas damage and mitigation did not change(in respect to the increase to heals your talking about)?



Maybe I am totally confused here. But if I am right, I now know whats wrong with Bioware.
Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

JustTray's Avatar


JustTray
04.18.2012 , 02:35 PM | #694
Quote: Originally Posted by MrXen View Post
This is why everyone with a brain knows you are wrong. Geeky number add ups? Lol? Its 3rd grade math literally. Geeky? Are you a 1980's "jock" playing a star wars MMO now "pwning" those "nub geeks"?


There is no theory here, there is no equation, Bioware PROVIDES these numbers, LOOK at your expertise %'s right now in-game and determine their effective result. Guarantee it'll be what I said. Why? Because there is no magic equation, its listed in your character details you incoherent ape.


And from your anecdotal "evidence" of "how you feel in game" my experience is people are dying at fairly the same rate. The fact you attempt to insult me for providing evidence whereas you tell everyone to "believe me because how I feel in-game is truth" is in all honesty giving me a good laugh in my comfy chair here. Thank you, you have boosted my self-esteem today and I feel much better now that I know: at LEAST I'm not you.
Since youre so insistent...

You realize youre arguing against yourself right?

Your numbers PROVE that healing has been nerfed relative to dps from 1.1.5 to 1.2.

Just because the ratios changed so that damage is now balanced with mitigation does not mean everytthing is "fixed."

Your premise is that since the ratios were adjusted, everytthing is now correct. Yet everyone else is arguing dps has received massive gains compared to dps. You mathematically proved that.

Now i suggest you take some logic and basic reading comprehension. Youre good on the math, weak on the critical thinking.

Dreydin's Avatar


Dreydin
04.18.2012 , 02:36 PM | #695
I have not done a single math equation, nor would I want too. All I did was quote my expertise percentages. Feel free to quote me doing math equations. I am basing my posts on what I see before my very eyes, when I see people dying in 3 seconds. Its seems some of you math geeks are taking answers from equations and dis-regarding reality.

Feel free to call me a dumb third grader all you like. You have every right to defend your equations. But you should feel lucky I can't grab you by the skull and do what I want to you.
Support your local healers. Boycott the Patch 1.2 Healing Nerfs. Make it clear to the Devs that their idea of "balance" is unacceptable. Unsubscribe Today

JustTray's Avatar


JustTray
04.18.2012 , 02:38 PM | #696
Again for the downs kids.

A change of the expertise ratio from 1-1-1 to 2-1.5-1 represents a buff to dps and a nerf to heals, by definition.

There is no arguing this fact. You can only argue where you personally believe the balance neutral spot is. From thr feedback since ptr its very obvious that healers dont find it to be in a good spot.

Khoraji's Avatar


Khoraji
04.18.2012 , 02:39 PM | #697
Quote: Originally Posted by Dreydin View Post
Actually I didnt go anywhere. And what do you define as doing fine? I still get wins, I still get over 700k healing in PVP matches(voidstar). I am however, not having fun like a lot of people would agree. What I am bringing to light, is the disparity between healing effectiveness and damage output. But keep clinging to your numbers. Numbers dont lie, thats true. But you and other geeks decide which raw figures are to be compared. What about heal activation times, and GCD's. When things die faster, you have to accomodate them into your math, do you not?

I am not a math geek, but I what I am trying to say is, it seems like your math is equivalent to a throughput equation. And its not taking into account the burst aspects.

Let me ask you this, your equation shows you that healing is increased, and mitigation and damage output are the same? So if thats the case, your saying the time to kill has increased? Because healing is better? Whereas damage and mitigation did not change(in respect to the increase to heals your talking about)?



Maybe I am totally confused here. But if I am right, I now know whats wrong with Bioware.
Read MrXen's reply to your "geek" insult. I didn't know 3rd grade math was considered a math geek. These numbers are provided to you in your character sheet, it is no secret.

As for your question. I am saying time to kill has not changed (due to expertise). I was at 12% healing pre 1.2 and I am at 12% after 1.2.

2/3 Healing CLASSES got nerfed. This has nothing to do with expertise. For mercs, it was our heat management and our bonus CD's that got the nerf. And it was needed. Operative healers got a buff, so they have nothing to complain about. Sorc healers I have heard got their cast time and resource management nerfed.

Some classes also got a little bit of a burst dmg buff, but nothing crazy.

Also, PvP gear has less endurance now, when 1.2 hit my health decreased by about 1000.

Did 1.2 make it so people die faster? Yes. Is it as bad as the QQ in these forums make it out to be? No. Is it game breaking? No.

JustTray's Avatar


JustTray
04.18.2012 , 02:39 PM | #698
Quote: Originally Posted by Dreydin View Post
I have not done a single math equation, nor would I want too. All I did was quote my expertise percentages. Feel free to quote me doing math equations. I am basing my posts on what I see before my very eyes, when I see people dying in 3 seconds. Its seems some of you math geeks are taking answers from equations and dis-regarding reality.

Feel free to call me a dumb third grader all you like. You have every right to defend your equations. But you should feel lucky I can't grab you by the skull and do what I want to you.
Dont bother. His math proves your point. He was arguing from an invalid premise so thr rest of his posts are useless.

Khoraji's Avatar


Khoraji
04.18.2012 , 02:40 PM | #699
Quote: Originally Posted by JustTray View Post
Since youre so insistent...

You realize youre arguing against yourself right?

Your numbers PROVE that healing has been nerfed relative to dps from 1.1.5 to 1.2.

Just because the ratios changed so that damage is now balanced with mitigation does not mean everytthing is "fixed."

Your premise is that since the ratios were adjusted, everytthing is now correct. Yet everyone else is arguing dps has received massive gains compared to dps. You mathematically proved that.

Now i suggest you take some logic and basic reading comprehension. Youre good on the math, weak on the critical thinking.
our math proved that DPS got a 1% increase due to the mitigation nerf.

That is not game breaking and pretending it is just makes you look like a troll

thetussin's Avatar


thetussin
04.18.2012 , 02:40 PM | #700
Since the start of the game, this is my second visit to the forums, and was to specifically try to find out if some changes were made to healing. In short, whatever was changed is HIGHLY noticeable. Played a 50 Sorcerer since launch, and spent 90% of my PVP time as a healer. Ranked up well, Champion+, and then decided to try Rep. Always loved the Trooper look, and again as a Commando I spend almost every WZ as a healer. With the changes, healers will now be non-existent. As someone who very much enjoyed playing a healer I am now at a loss as to what to do with the game. I loved bringing that dynamic to a PvP fight, now I am a distraction at best.