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A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A Healer's 1.2 Grievances: The story of why healers are upset

Dartagon's Avatar


Dartagon
04.13.2012 , 11:38 AM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by SKNugget View Post
There is a lot of good points in this thread, but it would take me too long to quote from each, so I'll sum up and build on a few.

My belief, in any MMO that has a healing class, is that Healers should be able to mitigate - through negation, recovery or avoidance - any single source of damage.

As an Operative Healer, I had one WZ experience where two DPS (although in fairness I think one was out of force) chased me all over The Pit for a good two minutes (felt like forever) until I caught a weird carem off a vent and lost them with my disappearing act. Comments in the General channel were that healers are OP. I had responded "can't I just be good, and not OP?"

I understand the frustration... but please consider the following, in pre-1.2 conditions:

1. you're a dps that does damage and I am countering it all with heals. Don't forget, I'm working for it. It's not like I'm popping one skill, standing still and laughing at you while you beat on me with now-wet noodles.

2. throw enough dps on me and I won't be able to keep up and will die.

3. while you're beating on me, I can't heal anyone but myself. You ARE helping your team win by preventing me from keeping my team alive longer. The longer I stay alive with you harassing me, the longer I am away from my teammates healing. I don't think that's OP, I think that's strategy, and a good one on your part.

But the other critical piece of this is that I should be able to keep any other one person alive while they are being attacked by the same number of dps players. Patch 1.2 diminishes that capability and renders healers as 'nice to have' when pre-1.2 they were 'absolutely critical'.

Post 1.2, the gap between dps maximums and healing maximums has grown too much, and not only can one DPS kill a healer handily 1v1, but healers have been marginalized to almost optional in a WZ group.

And while complaining about the comms, gear, medals mechanics all have points to argue, I leave them out of my opinions in this post entirely.
Pre-mades should beat pugs more often than not.
Gear should matter, but so should skill.
PVP gear should not be as, or more viable than PvE gear in the opposite environments and vice versa.
Healers should be able to mitigate - through negation, recovery or avoidance - any single source of damage.

Version 1.2's PVP changes negates this statement.

-- Orenishi, Saber of Exar Kun
This hits the nail on the head, so many times after wz's people would whisper me, hey you still do good healing even after nerf. The problem is, I contribute nothing to my team. We mostly loose, and the reason we are loosing, is cause I can't contribute to the positive influence in a match.

I really hope my experiences this morning wasn't a fluke or some weird bug because of the patch. I felt my survivability was really boosted and wasn't as bad as patch day. I only had time for the one match before the servers went back down.

Good players have always realized, that although you may not kill that healer, you've taken him completely out of the battle where he can push your team to a win. If a dps forces a healer away from the play and has him focus on self healing. You're winning, whether you kill the healer or end up fleeing.
Arkiels Quickfinger
BAMF
Iron Citadel

amnie's Avatar


amnie
04.13.2012 , 11:39 AM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by Mackeyla View Post
Question: Are you using relics and adrenals?

I can pop my crit relic and my power adrenal at the same time and get a 5-6k heal no problem. (Last night I got a 5900 crit in case you were wondering if this was post patch or not.) That's like 2 medals right there in a single fight. If I have time left over, I use one of my higher damage attacks and get a 2.5k damage medal. Then I pick a target that's about to die and auto-attack it, there's another medal for killing blow. Hell, cast an aoe heal in a big fight, you get your 10 enemies dead thing right then or soon after. All of this being done whlie I heal my group.

I just don't understand how people are complaining about getting so few medals medals when it is easier now than it ever ever was.

Work smarter, not harder.
of course I do. apart from that I can get the 5k heals without adrenals. the thing is they don't .count.
I did say though, that seems to be a bug, because others on my server have reported it aswell and later said they did get the medal eventually...

if the whole getting no medals for heals thing is a bug, fine, but if not... ugh.

iceperson's Avatar


iceperson
04.13.2012 , 11:41 AM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by Khoraji View Post
Look at the other team in my ss lol. They had all the top DMG.

Oh and since you can do OK in some WZ's...why are you qq'ing again? Just because everyone else is doing it?
I'm "qqing" because my team would always be better off if I was DPS (only reason I'm healing in PVP is because there isn't a dual spec yet.)

Happy-Killer's Avatar


Happy-Killer
04.13.2012 , 11:42 AM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
It's not about healing through 2 dpsers... I can do it now too, problem is when my friend gets attacked and pops all his cooldowns and I'm tunneling 50k healing in him versus a marauder and a powertech over the course of 2 mins and instead having his HP at least remain the same he ends up dying regardless of his CDs and my healing. I ask myself why would my rated team need me? If I can't contribute to their victory at all and essentially I'm the weak link just because I picked healing instead of damage. If a dps class can do 4 times the healing I do as damage in the same time frame. Why would anyone want a healer in their team instead of an extra dps?

Cuz in the time I cast a 2k heal (1.5 secs) that Marauder does 9k.

Some will argue you "but he can't do that 9k again for X amount of seconds", sure but this is where his friend comes around and goes the extra mile for another 9k. So bottom line when a healer and 1 dps/tank end up in a 2v2 situation vs 2 dps or a dps and a tank. Healer and dps/tank die to any of the other two combinations. So why get a healer for your rated team instead of dps?

Edit: Of course this is a very generalized situation but it will happen, A LOT. It happened to me yesterday 4 times in the course of 6 warzones.
1. if a dps is doin 4x your heals then your just a bad healer... skill, spec, gear or otherwise.

2. your a healer!! not Rambo the one man army... you of all people should be around your team at all times. Any teamate with half a brain that sees their healer getting beat on will pop snares/stuns/knockbacks to protect them.

3. If you are really being targeted say by 3 or 4 people, and all you can do is heal your self. YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE TEAM. While every1 is attacking you, there are many players on your team that could ninja cap, focus fire some 1 else, etc.

"Team based objective games". Healers are just used to being god, and being worshipped. They're all pissed off that they may not be the most important player on their team anymore. Hurt egos


Seems like you have been spoiled and are upset now that you can have your way. Healing is going to require a lot more teamwork now, and you won't be able to go dominate by yourself. But thats how it should be, the healers should be the most dependent on their teamates than any other class.

Vetril's Avatar


Vetril
04.13.2012 , 11:42 AM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by Siega View Post
So you are say a healer should be able to - against a dps in same quality gear and skill - to heal through the burst damage the dps during stuns/interrupts and on top of that do enough white damage to outdo the white damage of the dps? Just trying to clarify what you mean.

I'll be alright with that, can we get that buff in 1.3, pretty please? I am sorry, I fear the bad dps will complain too much and get healers nerfed again.
Close. What I'm saying is that you're the only class that, compared to the others, gets to significantly slow down the enemy's damage. You won't be able to outheal him cause he's tweaked to put out insane amounts of damage, but you'll end up eating more of it before you die, because of your heals. That means you get more time to hit them in return.
Now the thing is, the DPS is not tough, per se. He kills you fast, but he himself dies fast too.
If you focus exclusively on healing, he will keep piling damage on you till you die, because that's what he's designed to do. Most importantly, he'll be comfortable doing that.
So you won't win onl by using heals. It just won't happen, sorry. It's like a DPS trying to kill you without using interrupts. What you need to do is apply pressure on him in return, either through team help, or by doing it yourself. Hit him with dots and damage everytime you know there's no chance he can kill you in the next GCD - and you do have the tools to stay the **** away from those sabers.
The lower his HP gets, the further away he gets from his comfort zone, and, obviously, the closer to death he'll be. If you limit the time he has to kill you, he'll dish out less damage, and will be prone to make more mistakes as soon as he gets uncomfortable with the amount of damage he's taking.

Mackeyla's Avatar


Mackeyla
04.13.2012 , 11:43 AM | #286
Quote: Originally Posted by amnie View Post
I did say though, that seems to be a bug, because others on my server have reported it aswell and later said they did get the medal eventually...

if the whole getting no medals for heals thing is a bug, fine, but if not... ugh.
Hopefully since they've got the server down for another what? 5 hours? They'll fix some bugs and not make anything worse.

A girl can dream.
~*~Mackayla~*~Mackaela~*~Mackenzi~*~Mackenzee~*~
In my fist there's a song...
do you want to sing along?

Khoraji's Avatar


Khoraji
04.13.2012 , 11:43 AM | #287
Quote: Originally Posted by iceperson View Post
What's funny is you don't seem to know that they nerfed the +healing and +damage reduction from expertise. All 3 have different diminishing returns now.
What's funny is that apparently you cant do basic math.

But I will do this AGAIN for the idiots.
Assuming:
20% bonus dmg
16.5% dmg mitigation
12% bonus healing

Player 1 does 1000 dmg to player 2, both at the above expertise:

Lets factor in bonus dmg: "Player 1" now does 1200 dmg to "Player 2"

Now to factor in bonus DMG mitigation: "Player 1" now does 1002 dmg to "Player 2"

ok, so DPS get a .2% increase


Healers still get +12%

Kumodomodo's Avatar


Kumodomodo
04.13.2012 , 11:44 AM | #288
I play a lvl 50 commando . heal spec . I did just fine pre 1.2 i was getting 75k to 90k heal and maybe 60k damage..nothing to write home about but i felt as if i was contributing.

Post 1.2 i get anything that has a light saber on me and im dead in 3 seconds..because even with the gear and spec reducing my heal times..my 1.5 to 3.8k heal doesnt compare when im getting hit for 4k to 6.9k damage in 3 swings...on top of that im force choked and what ever else they wanna throw at me. I can hardly get a heal off even with max push back.

This patch sucked so bad i just respec'd to gunnery .

Point is if you are spec'd full heal and have decent gear , 1 v 1 should be a stalemate ..period. Otherwise who wants to get flippin owned every day.

This whole game relies on someone with a light saber doing massive damage and chokin you out...yah i saw the movie and know jedi and sith are bad ***...but this is a game.

Why even give us the choice to make any other class...just say your either a Jedi or Sith and get rid of the other classes..

I chalk this up to the 21 year old game designer who is in love with the Sith..cause thats all he talks about in the video's.

Games need balance...movies dont.

Sookster's Avatar


Sookster
04.13.2012 , 11:46 AM | #289
Quote: Originally Posted by Anelyn View Post
Tank + healer combo was pretty much unkillable
Which is why you separate the tank from the guarded target, grapple, force push, force pull, CC, etc. People in premades do it often, I do it on my powertech an awful lot, tanks that are guarding someone are my first target.
Now that GoergZoeller is gone, buff operative.
SWTOR going F2P, now playing SWGemu.

Dartagon's Avatar


Dartagon
04.13.2012 , 11:46 AM | #290
Quote: Originally Posted by Vetril View Post
Close. What I'm saying is that you're the only class that, compared to the others, gets to significantly slow down the enemy's damage. You won't be able to outheal him cause he's tweaked to put out insane amounts of damage, but you'll end up eating more of it before you die, because of your heals. That means you get more time to hit them in return.
Now the thing is, the DPS is not tough, per se. He kills you fast, but he himself dies fast too.
If you focus exclusively on healing, he will keep piling damage on you till you die, because that's what he's designed to do. Most importantly, he'll be comfortable doing that.
So you won't win onl by using heals. It just won't happen, sorry. It's like a DPS trying to kill you without using interrupts. What you need to do is apply pressure on him in return, either through team help, or by doing it yourself. Hit him with dots and damage everytime you know there's no chance he can kill you in the next GCD - and you do have the tools to stay the **** away from those sabers.
The lower his HP gets, the further away he gets from his comfort zone, and, obviously, the closer to death he'll be. If you limit the time he has to kill you, he'll dish out less damage, and will be prone to make more mistakes as soon as he gets uncomfortable with the amount of damage he's taking.
You obviously don't play a healer in 1.2. I can tell that just by what you are suggesting. Burst down a dps as a healer..........
Arkiels Quickfinger
BAMF
Iron Citadel