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Is it me of Lost island HM is overtuned??


Gereorth's Avatar


Gereorth
04.13.2012 , 11:24 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Mavery View Post
It can be (at times) difficult to problem solve with the same DPS. Sometimes you think a mechanic happens at X% but it could simply be that DPS does not change, giving you the erroneous idea that it's either i) bugged or ii) that it's a mechanic that always occur at X health levels.

From reading on the forums, some people report this "mechanic" occurring anywhere from 20 - 25%. I saw it in one run at about 18-19%. These varied numbers lead me to believe that it's an enrage.

IFF the reports all agreed on X% when it occurred, you can reason that it was a mechanic that always occurs. But because this is not the case, I'd lodge my bets on it being a soft enrage.
The reason it made myself think it was an enrage, is becouse it's impossible to get past it. Unless you have the best gear available in the game, but even then it would be near impossible.
I got the stuff, if you got the credits. If not, beat it kid!

Rafkin's Avatar


Rafkin
04.13.2012 , 11:33 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Varyen View Post
the room has areas in it that you can run to to los pull him.
Tried that once. There were about 4 spots to los him but once those have bubbles...every roughly 48 seconds into the fight...where do you go?

DamenX's Avatar


DamenX
04.13.2012 , 11:34 AM | #53
Good i'm glad its challenging. I have'nt hd a chance to do it yet but now i'm looking forward to it. So so sick of developers making all content face roll casue people wanna be able to one shot everything in tionese and blue gear. Bosses have to be challenging it makes the game fun.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
04.13.2012 , 11:57 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixMatrix View Post
You mean WoW (and SWTOR, and Rift, and...and...and...) proved that having all classes bundled in "role" categories is a bad idea, because then you have to balance them heavily against each other.

Classes should fill different roles altogether. Pure tank, Tank damage dealers, Pure healer, Pure support/buffer (that wouldnt work well with the 4 man mechanic though), Crowd Control and utility, ranged damage, melee damage, and all the hybrids.

Then you still have the issue of balancing so that all roles are useful, but it sure as hell better than making all damage dealers do the same amount of damage and the only difference being in what order you push the buttons...
Classes must be balanced against the role they perform. In the case of TOR, that is: tank, healer, DPS.

Whether it is melee or ranged DPS doesn't make a dreadful difference - especially for flashpoints - nor should it.

There is no crowd control / debuffer role in TOR, so any discussion regarding them is moot.

The point is, if an encounter is rendered easier because Tank01 has abilities that Tank03 does not have - then the playerbase will gravitate toward preference to Tank01. Likewise, if there is some nasty debuff that must be removed and Healer02 cannot remove that type, then the playerbase will gravitate toward Healer01. To finish the point off - and as Paladins in WoW prove pre-Cataclysm, encounters designed around everyone interrupting nasty cast abilities lead to players gravitating toward choosing classes that have interrupt abilities.

You can never have too many interrupt abilities available. DPS having an interrupt help if a mistake is made and the tank fat-fingers their interrupt early.

Someone would have to be stupid to not take a Sage that can kite/slow/interrupt/lifegrip over a Commando that cannot. This is why classes must be relatively equal across the board - it's okay for them to do things differently as long as they can accomplish the same end goal. Right now, all Commandos bring to the DPS role is DPS and now, in 1.2, a battlerez.

I'll be honest, if there was a Sage wearing Rakata in LFG along with me, I'd tell the group to take the Sage, even though our gear was equal - they are much more versatile to the group overall if things get rough.

alltitan's Avatar


alltitan
04.13.2012 , 12:06 PM | #55
For those wondering what the loot is. All the main bosses give a piece of columi gear and tionese crystels. The bonus boss give a rakata relic and the final boss gives culumi mainhand and rakata chest piece.

PhoenixMatrix's Avatar


PhoenixMatrix
04.13.2012 , 12:23 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Raeln View Post
Classes must be balanced against the role they perform. In the case of TOR, that is: tank, healer, DPS.
My point was that there should only be 1 class per role, unless the 2 classes are different enough that they fulfill the role so differently that you cannot compare them. So where SWTOR went wrong isn't that the classes aren't balanced. They can't be unless they're all the same with a different rotation. The problem is that they only have 3 roles and that is freagin dumb.

The closest 2 classes should ever be to filling up a role is stuff like in D&D Wizard vs Sorcerers, where the two are the same roles, but have totally different advantages and drawback to the point they're hard to compare, its all situational (and even there in an MMO where everyone should be able to do everything, its problematic).

Guild Wars 2 goes the other way to tackle that problem, by making everyone be able to do all roles instead, and went to crazy length to make the stylistic difference more than just the order in which you push the buttons.. That may end up better, or much worse...we'll see.

Those are just a few examples though. There's a LOT of games where classes are too different to compare, and the concept of having stuff fall in specific roles makes no sense. WoW really popularized those "role buckets", and the MMO industry suffered for it.

Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
04.13.2012 , 12:44 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by PhoenixMatrix View Post
My point was that there should only be 1 class per role, unless the 2 classes are different enough that they fulfill the role so differently that you cannot compare them. So where SWTOR went wrong isn't that the classes aren't balanced. They can't be unless they're all the same with a different rotation. The problem is that they only have 3 roles and that is freagin dumb.

The closest 2 classes should ever be to filling up a role is stuff like in D&D Wizard vs Sorcerers, where the two are the same roles, but have totally different advantages and drawback to the point they're hard to compare, its all situational (and even there in an MMO where everyone should be able to do everything, its problematic).

Guild Wars 2 goes the other way to tackle that problem, by making everyone be able to do all roles instead, and went to crazy length to make the stylistic difference more than just the order in which you push the buttons.. That may end up better, or much worse...we'll see.

Those are just a few examples though. There's a LOT of games where classes are too different to compare, and the concept of having stuff fall in specific roles makes no sense. WoW really popularized those "role buckets", and the MMO industry suffered for it.
I don't agree, but further discussion would just derail the thread even more.

dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
04.13.2012 , 12:50 PM | #58
so what is the optimal kite path?

i would think that you can los pull to corner with dps/heals behind boss, get ball growth on dps/heals, then go to the next corner, repeat, then go to other side of room...

but we gave up after 10 tries.

luckily repair costs are finally reasonable.

Astoncam's Avatar


Astoncam
04.13.2012 , 12:54 PM | #59
With a Gunslinger, I can interrupt the "Incinerate" skill by myself all the time. We wiped around 6-7 times with a PUG in our party and a very bad geared healer so.

It's a hard boss (the droid)? Yes. It's a hard flashpoint (compared to the others)? Yes. But its a hard mode. The rest of hard mode flashpoints should be like Lost Island in difficult terms, not the bad joke they are. I ding 50' and starting hard modes to get my Columi Gear last week (with my 4 50 char) inmediatly without entering in a normal flashpoint. Now I'm full columi and 4 rakata pieces.

This game isn't difficult so please, be careful with the word "hard".

< Dark Requiem > Habana - Gunslinger

scootle's Avatar


scootle
04.13.2012 , 12:59 PM | #60
I think the loot dropped by the bosses should be upped a small notch (Columi drops seem underwhelming for content of this caliber)... but I honestly hope they do NOT nerf the difficulty. I'd suggest they up things a half-step and have sub bosses drop Exo loot at least, and end boss can remain Rakata. Dropping Columi *Commendations* would be more appropriate than Tionese crystals...

Even without lockouts, I'm not sure how many groups at this point of the content-cycle can truly "farm" this content, nor would desire to do so given the challenges. This is not content for the casual PUG.

That said, challenge is welcome in a business where everything seems to be handed to the loudest QQ these days.

There is one reviewer who said it perfectly... "This is more akin to a mini-operation (raid) for 4 players than a just another flashpoint (instance)..." Hit the nail on the head quite well with that description.

PS We beat all except the end boss before we had to quit for the night due to unforeseen circumstances. Our composition was:

Assassin Tank (me)
Sorc Healer
Merc DPS
Marauder DPS (switched to Merc DPS for LR-5 to avoid annoying melee bubbles)

Once I figured out the interrupt cycling, I was able to sole-interrupt the Incinerate and I could Force Shroud myself if I managed to end up with more than 1 stack of Incinerate somehow. We ignored Plasma Arc since the healer was pretty focused on healing and moving. By going to a 2nd ranged dps instead of melee, I never had to move the boss at ALL... just rotated him to keep the party out of the cone for Incinerate.
utinni!!!