So...I'm a bit sad with the recent change, and I'd like to try and offer some thoughts as to why without things degenerating into an inevitable flame fest.

 

Let me say upfront I'm not a big PvPer. In fact, this is the first MMO I've done a fair amount of PvP in, because it seemed very accessible. I'm a grad student with a very busy schedule, so I don't typically have endless hours to spend perfecting my twitch-gaming skills, and I'm not that good at it. But that was ok...I'd log in when I didn't have time to do long strings of story missions and do a few warzones. Most of the time the Sith would mop the floor with the Republic side (I play Republic), but that was ok because I still got some advancement in commendations and credits each time.

 

I realize there is a pretty big gear gap between my lvl 50 guy and most of the big PvPers. I also realize it takes a lot of time to ascend that ladder, but I didn't mind the slow ascent, because even when we lost I was still gradually improving my load-outs. Now...that seems not to be the case anymore. Now when my side gets mopped, we don't get much of anything, commendations or credits, so that sense of slow steady progression is lost.

 

I was generally able to be pretty zen about loosing PvP matches before. A lot of folks were way ahead of me, but I knew I'd get there eventually. Now that doesn't seem to be the case, as it is possible to go through an extended sequences of matches and have nothing to show for it. I suppose you can take the attitude that only the winners should get rewarded, but I think that inevitably locks out people like myself who aren't hard-core PvPers and I think that's a shame. I signed up to be on a PvE server because mostly I wanted to play out the story, but it was nice to be able to segway into the PvP side of things once in a while. It doesn't seem like an option anymore, and I'll miss it.

 

I'm not threatening to cancel my subscription or anything, this isn't why I signed up for this game. I signed up because I love Star Wars and I love Bioware's writing, so I'll continue to play the PvE side of the game and enjoy it. I guess I just think its a shame the bar on getting involved in PvP has been raised as high as it has, it was enjoyable feature.

Edited April 13, 2012 by arcadinal

Good input.

 

TOR was an MMO were casual players could, and did, have fun in PVP. 1.2 killed that, and removed a big part of the game's appeal for anyone who isn't hardcore.

So...I'm a bit sad with the recent change, and I'd like to try and offer some thoughts as to why without things degenerating into an inevitable flame fes...

 

...ecause I love Star Wars and I love Bioware's writing, so I'll continue to play the PvE side of the game and enjoy it. I guess I just think its a shame the bar on getting involved in PvP has been raised as high as it has, it was enjoyable feature.

 

The main issue I think is that the high-end PVP armor makes such a ::HUGE:: difference that its almost essential in post-level-50 PVP... but in order to earn it and be able to win, you need to win?? That makes a lot of sense.

Edited April 13, 2012 by NoRforU

. but in order to earn it and be able to win, you need to win?? That makes a lot of sense.

 

bingo. big 'ole catch-22 that only benefits the early-adopters on the dominant faction (often the illium-exploiters).

The main issue I think is that the high-end PVP armor makes such a ::HUGE:: difference that its almost essential in post-level-50 PVP... but in order to earn it and be able to win, you need to win?? That makes a lot of sense.

 

And that's what makes the medal-threshold so painful I think. It's not just about your skill, it's about your gear. To get better PvP gear, you need to win PvP fights, but you can't win PvP fights unless...yeah, around it goes. Before, you at least got a little closer each time. Now, not so much.

makes no sense, there are larger issues to 1.2 and pvp then just simply gear. it is easier now then ever to get gear, even if you are playing casually. just be patient and wait it out till rated warzones start, all the hardcore players will be there.

makes no sense, there are larger issues to 1.2 and pvp then just simply gear. it is easier now then ever to get gear, even if you are playing casually. just be patient and wait it out till rated warzones start, all the hardcore players will be there.

 

No it's not, at all.

 

I don't know which patch you're playing in but it isn't 1.2 if you think that:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=404817

I'm with the OP. I found PvP accessible and I was even making some progress (I have 2 pieces of Champion gear! Wow!). I'm certainly not playing again until there are some further revisions.

makes no sense, there are larger issues to 1.2 and pvp then just simply gear. it is easier now then ever to get gear, even if you are playing casually. just be patient and wait it out till rated warzones start, all the hardcore players will be there.

 

Explain to me then how a person on the losing side (not saying I am, but I understand their concern) would gear up post-1.2? Do you really expect them to run approximately 25 full warzones that they lose to obtain a single piece of gear?

 

I don't have a problem personally with the change, I win, but in the end it will only make the dominant groups more dominant and leave the rest behind to just tickle their shins instead of actually kicking 'em. And even for the dominant groups who continuously win, it will get boring as they will continue stomping the same low-geared people as always who eventually get bored of doing something where they get completely wrecked with little to no reward. That leads to queues drying up and eventually the better players to leave as well due to boredom.

 

See the big problem? Yes, there are other issues with PvP in 1.2, but this is very much a valid concern as well. His problem wasn't the hardcore players not being there, his concern is that the casual player will be hopelessly left behind due to the gap in gear, leaving them without a viable option to eventually catch up on gear.

Recruit gear... seriously its pretty good for fresh 50s. It was created especialy to bridge the gap. Use it.

Explain to me then how a person on the losing side (not saying I am, but I understand their concern) would gear up post-1.2? Do you really expect them to run approximately 25 full warzones that they lose to obtain a single piece of gear?

 

I don't have a problem personally with the change, I win, but in the end it will only make the dominant groups more dominant and leave the rest behind to just tickle their shins instead of actually kicking 'em. And even for the dominant groups who continuously win, it will get boring as they will continue stomping the same low-geared people as always who eventually get bored of doing something where they get completely wrecked with little to no reward. That leads to queues drying up and eventually the better players to leave as well due to boredom.

 

See the big problem? Yes, there are other issues with PvP in 1.2, but this is very much a valid concern as well. His problem wasn't the hardcore players not being there, his concern is that the casual player will be hopelessly left behind due to the gap in gear, leaving them without a viable option to eventually catch up on gear.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/screenshot2012041312312.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/screenshot2012041312312.jpg/

 

Yes, that most certainly shows the rewards for the losing faction.

 

/sarcasm off.

Yes, that most certainly shows the rewards for the losing faction.

 

/sarcasm off.

 

The point of me linking that was to show the disparity between the winning team and the losing team. You can't see what the loser earns but one can extrapolate...

The point of me linking that was to show the disparity between the winning team and the losing team. You can't see what the loser earns but one can extrapolate...

 

Ah, my bad. I thought you were trying to prove me wrong. My apologies, mate.

I really want to give props to the OP. He was dead on with the post. I too have never PvPed and for the most part ALWAYS avoided it. But once I reached lvl 50 in PvE, I wanted something to do, so I tried out PvP.

 

I shared the same feelings: I'm Republic and enjoy a server where in WZs the Imps usually win with a 4:1 ratio, but it didn't effect me much either because I knew if I stuck to it, I would get better gear and compete better. To add insult to injury, I roll with my Commando, which is already squishy to begin with and is dependant on a great healer and tank to have any survivability. Again I didn't care that the odds were stacked against me: weak class, weak faction on a server and not much time to play like the hardcore kids. In the end it was "sticking to it" and "not giving up" that got me to a full championship gear set. Hell, try doing a "weekly" on Ilum on my server, impossible.

 

Now the OP is right, the old saying stands: "the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer".. Guys with the batter faction and better gear, can only earn it faster, while the weaker faction gets slowed to a halt when trying to "improve".

 

I too am not going to threaten to "unsubscribe" or anything like that, but I will probably play less, at least less PvP, because there is no incentive. I'm already dealing with the nerfs to my class (which was weak to start with), but now I'm dealing with less credit for playing PvP.

I know this isn't much for consolation, and it would still take some time, but cybertechs are supposed to be able to RE mods and learn new patterns, it should be the same for artifice with enhancements. I'm sure there are some people that are ware of this, and are trying to learn these patterns. That means that you could potentially buy the same mods that are in BM gear off the gtn. The only difference in those and the actual gear would be no set bonuses, and what ever look your orange gear has. You could potentially buy a full set of pseudo BM gear without ever stepping foot in a wz.

With a faction imbalance on my server there is no point in rewarding the same super geared out teams, over and over.

I truly can't get my head around these changes.

 

Most servers have a faction imbalance one way or the other, so BW attempt to solve this only rewarding the winning side in a WZ.... just lol.

 

I have an Imperial agent, he is already (almost) max geared and he wins 9 / 10 WZ's simply because 70-80% of the Imperial teams are max geared (this is PUG btw).

Fresh 50 Imperials are getting to max gear in a couple of weeks because of the faction imbalance.

 

Now i have a fresh lvl50 Sentinal on the same server, i lose almost every single WZ.

It still stung a bit but atleast previously i was still rewarded for competing and was able to buy a couple of PvP pieces.

After 1.2 i have played 12 WZ's and lost 11, i received almost nothing for these losses.

What realy irritates me is i know there is a fresh 50 Marauder on the other team who has won 11 / 12 and is able to buy more gear.

 

How is this in any way fair?

Truth be told I actually find it a little mystifying as to why folks would be threatening to pull subscriptions over this. The big selling point for this game was always the story oriented portions, and PvP at least for me was more a neat little mini-game I could do off on the side rather then ultimate reason for my playing. I realize PvP is more important to some folks then others, though at the same time the forums in every MMO I've seen are always filled with decelerations of subscription cancellation over X or Y, so I suppose it's par for the course.

 

The game is young yet and I have a great deal of faith in Bioware. I have high hopes things will balance out in time.