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The Bounty Hunterís Guide to PFT: An Advanced Prototype Special

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
The Bounty Hunterís Guide to PFT: An Advanced Prototype Special

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
06.15.2012 , 09:16 AM | #171
Quote: Originally Posted by midnitemonster View Post
Am I the only AP who gets Pyro envy from time to time? I seem to have a hard time breaking the 250k dmg mark and often see a Pyro with over 300-400k Granted those are the Pyros in full Augmented WH. I am in BM with a couple WH pieces. Maybe I am just doing something wrong.
I only get Pyro envy when I watch a good one wreck a healer in a few seconds. I also feel jealous in Ops when their random burst damage is better in high movement fights in Denova and therefore ends up being more consistent due to high up time on boss.

I don't feel jealous when I mow them down with my operative because they are squishier than a roll of wet toilet paper, or I watch them get slowed and kited like a pro by a sniper. I don't feel jealous when I see them using Rapid shots every few seconds to help manage heat. I don't feel jealous when I mow down 3 people with some beautiful pft.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

CrunkShizzle's Avatar


CrunkShizzle
06.15.2012 , 04:17 PM | #172
so the Tibetan Candle build is a rail shot build?

just wondering because all the builds you have listed are no rail shot yet you still have the priority rotation for a rail shot build

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
06.15.2012 , 04:45 PM | #173
Quote: Originally Posted by CrunkShizzle View Post
so the Tibetan Candle build is a rail shot build?

just wondering because all the builds you have listed are no rail shot yet you still have the priority rotation for a rail shot build
Every build but Norse is a rail shot build. I will double check the order to make sure it reads more clearly. The Tibetan Candle simply substitutes HEGC for IGC, you could take out PFT and Immolate, and add the Venting from Rail shot, but if you are going to do that you might as well go for the Hybrid Maverick.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Hizoka's Avatar


Hizoka
06.23.2012 , 11:52 PM | #174
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
I only get Pyro envy when I watch a good one wreck a healer in a few seconds. I also feel jealous in Ops when their random burst damage is better in high movement fights in Denova and therefore ends up being more consistent due to high up time on boss.

I don't feel jealous when I mow them down with my operative because they are squishier than a roll of wet toilet paper, or I watch them get slowed and kited like a pro by a sniper. I don't feel jealous when I see them using Rapid shots every few seconds to help manage heat. I don't feel jealous when I mow down 3 people with some beautiful pft.
for someone who was so anti AP a few months ago you seem to of changed your toon, how does it make you feel when you know there were people out there that saw what you now see months before you did?

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
06.25.2012 , 09:40 AM | #175
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
for someone who was so anti AP a few months ago you seem to of changed your toon, how does it make you feel when you know there were people out there that saw what you now see months before you did?
I am lost on your question. I think anyone who knows me from before I studied it, and saw me now would be happy for my progress ;p. I decided to test something. I still find AP to be a significanlty easier pvp spec, but I find it much less effective in pve in Denova. The first two bosses especially I found especially troubling for PFT where constant movement is required, Pyro just outshined them AP by a significant amount.

I find CGC to be the game breaker damage wise. They are very similar up to CGC. CGC's dot is too powerful, and it makes Pyro's damage anywhere from 5-10 percent better in any fight.

For PVP, I prefer the non-rng playstyle of AP. However pre 1.2 there was zero reason to play AP compared to Pyro, the unlimited RNG of RS made it significantly more powerful, and pre 1.2 there was no slow attached which made it perhaps the most difficult pvp style.

Now, AP is very simple, easy, and efficient. I actually recommend to all lvl 50's. To start off as Norse for pvp and AP for pve until they get a handle on their rotation and heat and then step up to Pyro. Pyro requires much more micro managing leaving AP with a better gameplay feel and a more enjoyable raid experience.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

DacRycar's Avatar


DacRycar
06.27.2012 , 02:30 PM | #176
Having tried NORSE and Pyro/Assault in Ranked WZs, I'm a bit in the air about which is the more preferred.

Pyro is still a great go-to spec for Powertechs/Vanguards looking for a good burst. Nevertheless, it is heavily dependent on a Tech DoT running on its target, which is cleansible by Operatives/Scoundrels and Mercenaries/Commandos. Pyro/Assault proved to be difficult to manage against coordinationed, voice com'd teams with above-average healers.

NORSE's utility, mobility and survivability proved useful in Ranked Warzones, however, its burst lacked behind its fire-obsessed sibling. In addition, when using Flamethrower/Pulse Generator, the Powertech/Vanguard was a standing turret with a limited range and remained susceptible to mez and stun effects. The overall heat/ammo management was excellent for long encounters, but the lack of powerful burst damage left this build a bit lacking for me in Ranked WZs.

What are your thoughts since 1.3, Opf?
Major Azhandra Rycar The Ebon Hawk server
"I troll people by using Full Auto and shouting
'Vanguards are a ranged class!'"

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
06.28.2012 , 01:00 AM | #177
Quote: Originally Posted by DacRycar View Post
Having tried NORSE and Pyro/Assault in Ranked WZs, I'm a bit in the air about which is the more preferred.

Pyro is still a great go-to spec for Powertechs/Vanguards looking for a good burst. Nevertheless, it is heavily dependent on a Tech DoT running on its target, which is cleansible by Operatives/Scoundrels and Mercenaries/Commandos. Pyro/Assault proved to be difficult to manage against coordinationed, voice com'd teams with above-average healers.

NORSE's utility, mobility and survivability proved useful in Ranked Warzones, however, its burst lacked behind its fire-obsessed sibling. In addition, when using Flamethrower/Pulse Generator, the Powertech/Vanguard was a standing turret with a limited range and remained susceptible to mez and stun effects. The overall heat/ammo management was excellent for long encounters, but the lack of powerful burst damage left this build a bit lacking for me in Ranked WZs.

What are your thoughts since 1.3, Opf?
I was asked that question by the vanguard forum guy earlier today via PM. My opinion remains the same. The only thing that has changed is that you now get the slow, which most of you will soon find is amazing. Any stuns spent on you during PG is a stun not spent on a ball carrier or healer. That makes it a win.

Norse is a team spec, it's not a 1v1. What you don't see and isn't reflected is the reduction in damage from your flame attacks. What will happen is you stay mobile until you get a group lined up around a healer or node and then pop HtL and PG. If they don't stun you, they will get fried. Without relics, Pyro will see a minor nerf and especially as people figure out how to kill them. A good Op or commando healer will completely neutralize a pyro dps.

I like both specs, but find Norse much more fluid.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Readog's Avatar


Readog
06.28.2012 , 10:08 PM | #178
Thanks for the great guide TheOpf. After reading it I respecced from full ST to NORS build. While ST I was using 2 pc BM supercommando and 2 pc champ combat medic in order to get the 15 sec shield. Right now I am full BM combat tech. I read that you were also using the 15sec shield set. Which 2 pc war hero combat medic did you get? I would assume one would be gloves because it has crit and surge. But all other CM pieces have alarcity with either power or crit. Should I replace the combat tech piece that has accuracy (chest or boots) with the intention of swapping out the alarcity pieces much much later? The reason is right now I am starting to buy WH gear and do not want to get the full combat tech set and then get 2 pc WH combat medic pieces.

Thanks

Steele_dk's Avatar


Steele_dk
06.29.2012 , 06:23 AM | #179
Aswell, thank you for a great read, there was a few things i learned here and a few things i am happy to know i have grasped the right way of this class.

However, i still cant get to understand why anyone in a AP full spec would want a norse build with the other talents you can get instead

I mean, 10 seconds less cd on a stun is not that attractive or will decide the outcome of an encounter. The less cd on interupt i can understand locking down a healerwise, but still not a gamebreaker unless you sole job is only to kill healers.

And heres the most difficult reason i have aswell leaving out RS. The whole idea of dropping RS is as i understand it, too get a bigger window under your 12 second PFT timer cd but as you already put in comments following your guide, flame sweep adds also a stack and i have yet to go into a fight without having at least 3 stacks ready for the fight and still have 0 heat because out cylinder drops it fast.
Sure i cant do that trick while i first engaged combat but the argument of dropping RS just for a few seconds more to build up PFT in dynamic pvp i find weird Id rather just do the armor ignore talent and do my tree the normal way, as an AP we are a bit lower compared to Pyros in burst and why not get the most dmg out of your abilities if you can?

All of this 12 second window aswell completely ignores the possiblity of being stunned/push or otherwise stopped to do dps and i for one am not letting go of RS. Remember also if your teammate has already stunned or dotted up your enemy. Opening with ED+RS before 10m range is also very nice.

Anyways thanks again for the read, well put together guide.

Skullbash's Avatar


Skullbash
06.29.2012 , 11:24 AM | #180
Quote: Originally Posted by Steele_dk View Post
Aswell, thank you for a great read, there was a few things i learned here and a few things i am happy to know i have grasped the right way of this class.

However, i still cant get to understand why anyone in a AP full spec would want a norse build with the other talents you can get instead

I mean, 10 seconds less cd on a stun is not that attractive or will decide the outcome of an encounter. The less cd on interupt i can understand locking down a healerwise, but still not a gamebreaker unless you sole job is only to kill healers.

And heres the most difficult reason i have aswell leaving out RS. The whole idea of dropping RS is as i understand it, too get a bigger window under your 12 second PFT timer cd but as you already put in comments following your guide, flame sweep adds also a stack and i have yet to go into a fight without having at least 3 stacks ready for the fight and still have 0 heat because out cylinder drops it fast.
Sure i cant do that trick while i first engaged combat but the argument of dropping RS just for a few seconds more to build up PFT in dynamic pvp i find weird Id rather just do the armor ignore talent and do my tree the normal way, as an AP we are a bit lower compared to Pyros in burst and why not get the most dmg out of your abilities if you can?

All of this 12 second window aswell completely ignores the possiblity of being stunned/push or otherwise stopped to do dps and i for one am not letting go of RS. Remember also if your teammate has already stunned or dotted up your enemy. Opening with ED+RS before 10m range is also very nice.

Anyways thanks again for the read, well put together guide.
Good points, I like the railshot build as well because of the instant 30% slow on rb, which is huge to me, especially for kiting marauders, and the ed/rs combo after a slow gives you something to use that hurts at range. That slow and hydraulic overrides make a lot of classes much easier for me in 1v1 situations. Heck, you can even ignore the railshot proc/armor penetration skill if you want and just use rb for the slow only while playing the same as you do in the norse spec.

More of an opinion thing I guess, But i just have more fun playing with a railshot build.