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The Bounty Hunter’s Guide to PFT: An Advanced Prototype Special

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
The Bounty Hunter’s Guide to PFT: An Advanced Prototype Special

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
04.26.2012 , 12:55 PM | #111
You realize you are using a priority rotation right ;p. You just have a system that allows you to use your priority rotation. The priority rotation that you use allowed you to come up with your set rotation which works fine in a static fight. In any movement or switches than your priority takes over. That's why we don't use a set rotation.

Your Priority rotation seems to be based on your converstation.

RB - FT - RP (free) - Immo - RS (crit) - Flame Burst - Rapid

When your heat is over 20 than your priority shifts to
RP (Free) Rapid - and nothing else.

Because you priority getting RB up over getting FT at 5 stacks. You would never use (Free) RP over FT unless your heat was over 20. You would never use Immo if FT was available. Do you see what I mean? You are using a priority rotation you are simply typing how you use your rotation. There is no static rotation because I can use Immo anywhere in your rotation without losing dps as long as I don't use it when I have a FT up. This is why it's called a priority rotation.

Here is why we call it priority rotation. You will never use any attack if PFT is up over FT. If you have Immolate and RB up, Immolate is used, if your RS (crit) is up than it becomes used even if RB is about to drop off. You can't have a static rotation when we don't need one attack to lead to another in order to build damage except for the PFT stacks.

Using this known fact that we use the Highest DPS per GCD available when it's available we have a priority rotation of

RS (crit)
PFT
Immo
RB
RP_Free
FB

Now because this is not manageable to simply hit these buttons whenever they are up. We have a heat priority as well.

HL = Heat limit (this is the point at which we use our heat reduction abilities they gain priority over anything else) The best heat limit is 20-30. As RS is our only 25 heat ability it's the only ability which would immediately require an RP (free) or RS immediately after it.

HL Priority (heat in excess of 20)
RP_FREE
Rapid

This means that when our heat exceeds 20 we should use one of the two abilities before going back to our priority rotation. How you weave them in is dependant on situation and build. Such as with the Norse build I almost never use Rapid because there almost 0 heat management issues outside of the period where PFT ends, RP is not yet avaialble, and your passive vent heat hasn't happened.

Does this make sense? You can't have a static rotation because there are too many variable, and too many waiting on CD's. btw, the rotation that works best for me is - Imm - FB - RB - RP - FBX3 - Rapid - PFT
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Allysaala's Avatar


Allysaala
04.26.2012 , 06:12 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
I actually like when they pop hunker down. It means I can get on them and pop HO with PFT and watch them freak and either run away or stand still and take it in the face. If they run away they wasted their Hunker down, and they will die.
go ahead and run up in my face...be prepared for a Dirty Kick, Pistol Whip, Leg Shot, Pulse Detonator...Rapid Shots or my rotation if not on cds....I may not pvp much on my 'slinger but when I do, i'm no pansy that runs...oh and as long as ur in my face and they aren't on cd either: Defense Screen, Dodge

but this is neither here nor there. my response was to someone who wrote in a long time before I saw this guide which is truly what the posting are all about not our responses to what to do when fighting 'slingers in pvp so let's keep on topic once again ...and i must say i've been looking forward to working on my BH now that I've read this guide. Thx again for one that's well-written and easy to understand.
the only cure for "alt-itis" is the make more alts...come on...you know you wanna make another one!!

Anavarra's Avatar


Anavarra
04.26.2012 , 06:56 PM | #113
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
You realize you are using a priority rotation right ;p. You just have a system that allows you to use your priority rotation. The priority rotation that you use allowed you to come up with your set rotation which works fine in a static fight. In any movement or switches than your priority takes over. That's why we don't use a set rotation.
I understand how the Priority Rotation works, it’s just not the same as the Static Rotation that I’m suggesting, and attempting to model the Static Rotation with a Priority system misses some important points.

For example, with Heat limits, if I wanted to describe the heat limit that the Static Rotation uses, it would look something like this:
If Heat>31, RP (Free) – Rapid Shots
If 32>Heat>23, Immolate – RP (Free) – Rapid Shots
If Heat>10 AND Flame Thrower Cooldown<1.5, RP (Free) – Rapid Shots.

Which is pretty convoluted, and unnecessary, since the Static Rotation is functionally heat neutral.

Additionally, I could say something like:
Follow this priority rotation:
FT – RB – RP (free) – Immo – RS(Crit) – Flame Burst – Rapid
BUT, Try to group your Flame Bursts together in between your Immolates to avoid losing Flame Barrage procs if Rocket Punch will be up soon. Always make sure to hit your 15-second cooldowns on cooldown, but you should also thread heat venting abilities every two abilities to ensure you get the most possible Rocket Punches, regardless of what the heat limit is telling you to do.

I feel like listing the rotation is a much simpler, more effective, and more easily understood way of communicating these concepts.

Retractable Blade
FILLER 1 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Flame Burst
Flame Burst
FILLER 2 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Rail Shot (if Charged Gauntlets up) OR Flame Burst
Immolate
FILLER 3 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Flame Thrower
<repeat>

Now, certainly, you can modify this, and achieve the same result. Just don’t pair Immolate with a Flame Burst before a filler, because it reduces the amount of free rocket punches you’ll get to use by 3%. Also, only use Flame Thrower after a filler (or Immolate), or you’ll overheat slightly faster.
For example, this accomplishes the same thing:

Flame Thrower
Immolate
FILLER 1 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Retractable Blade
Rail Shot (if Charged Gauntlets up) OR Flame Burst
FILLER 2 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Flame Burst
Flame Burst
FILLER 3 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
<repeat>

While this reduces your Free Rocket Punches by 3% and causes more overheating problems.
Flame Thrower
FILLER 1 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Immolate
Flame Burst
FILLER 2 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Rail Shot (if Charged Gauntlets up) OR Flame Burst
Flame Burst
FILLER 3 [Flame Burst (heat permitting) OR Rocket Punch (if FREE) OR Rapid Shots]
Retractable Blade
<repeat>

Now, I’ll freely admit that there’s another discussion that needs to be had about what a practical rotation ought to be. Since our heat generation (i.e. how fast we push our buttons) is subject to slight ability lag, while our heat dissipation (which is completely passive) is not, it remains to be seen whether that imbalance will favor something else. I suspect it would just mean using Flame Burst for filler more, since the rotation becomes heat negative with at least 10% ability delay.

dardack's Avatar


dardack
04.27.2012 , 06:35 AM | #114
Did HM EC last nite. Only 8 man, so only 8 dps, but was 1 or 2. Me and a mara would swap. So I'm even more comfortable with AP's DPS output to my playstyle.
Doofensmirtz lvl 50 PTIn Erebus Drooga's Pleasure Barge. 4 Imps 50. Doofentrooper lvl 50 VG in Goof Troop DPB
Dear BW please have RS/HiB send me to other fleet Nekkid. TY. Also, don't allow 3 sin/shadow 2 sorc/sage teams in HB. That is all.

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
04.27.2012 , 09:58 AM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by dardack View Post
Did HM EC last nite. Only 8 man, so only 8 dps, but was 1 or 2. Me and a mara would swap. So I'm even more comfortable with AP's DPS output to my playstyle.
I was talking with my brother who is a sniper, and in full columni gear he is doing 1100 - 1200 dps depending on spec. He was upset because in my half pvp and Half tionese/columni gear i am doing 1000 - 1100 dps. I can't hit 1250 yet, but I am pushing 1100 on static fights.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
04.27.2012 , 11:10 AM | #116
Anavarra,

I went back to the standard AP with HEGC yesterday. The heat management in a full AP is very easy to handle without holding to a static rotation. While I agree that your rotation allows you almost to never even come close to 40 or 60 heat, there are several points at which your rotation is more confusing than it needs to be. I have no problem getting to 5 stacks of PFT without overheating by the time FT comes off Cooldown.

You believe I am over simplifying the rotation, and I firmly believe you are over complicating the issue. I agree with you on the Heat limit issues. However with the passive heat management and a basic understanding of where to use RP you don't need to say stick to this rotation. Granted you probably do many more PVE environments than I do so you have a better grasp of boss fights.

I am simply stating in the Boss Fights that I have been involved in. I have yet to meet one where I don't have to move or avoid something or switch targets within the first 3 rotations. Dardack would be better suited to answer how many where you actually get 5 rotations out before having to move.

I have yet to see a reason outside of probably making it easier for a beginner to get a handle on heat management to use a static rotation principle. With the passive heat management unless you pop a RS right before FT you will never run into serious heat issues.

As for your rotation - RB should never be first in the rotation, nor should you ever save Immolate to use before PFT. Immolate is one of your hardest hitting and best damage per GCD and damage per heat attacks. It should be used every time it's up regardless of where you are in cycle.

I use a base rotation: Immo - RB - FBX2 - RP(free) - FBx2 - PFT - On the second rotation, I use Rapid before my PFT. The reason is that once PFT is finished Casting, Immo will be coming off CD and So will RB. It's always better to push RB than it is to push Immo. Technically speaking pushing RP (Free) is a dps loss, but there is no reason to use it after Immo - RB - FBx1 because by this time your passive heat has dropped your remaining heat below 20. So the optimum time to see a heat management is to use RP (Free) only when heat exceeds 20 though I tend to use it on demand.

Again the dps difference between your static rotation and my priority rotation is +/- 1 percent. I do not find heat management to be as much of a concern as you. I mentioned in the guide about maintaining an under 40 heat to maximize heat management. I will attempt to be more clear about heat management, and how it works also I will add the Heat Limit of 20 for Heat limit skills. However, I cannot in a clear conscience add a static rotation, as I don't see the same benefits from it you do.

From my understanding, you are using Immolate as a heat management tool, and that is the wrong way to look at it. You are taking your best attack and pushing it quite a bit so you manage your heat more than add dps. It is better to do that with RP (free) than it is do it with Immo. You have overcompensated in an effort to watch heat. I have no problems with heat management in a static rotation. RS is the only heat intensive attack I have, and I always make sure to use a Rapid shot or RP (free) Immediately after it. I always use Immolate after PFT because it comes off CD right at that moment. I either use RB before or after an FB depending on how I started my rotation. RB just drops off every time and I reapply it.

I am almost positive that running your static rotation and my priority rotation we will end up with the same dps and the same heat. I am pretty close to being sure that my Rapid usage would be less than yours as well.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
04.27.2012 , 11:35 AM | #117
Update 4/27: Added Heat/Ammo information. Noted Anavaar's suggestion of using FT on CD in the Suggestion thread. Added a Heat Limit Priority Rotation.

Please keep voting for this I am not sure how many votes we need, but let's get this stickied.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
04.28.2012 , 01:44 PM | #118
The Vanguard Version was stickied! I was told to use the report post button and state review for sticky for this thread. Anyone that can do that will help. Thank you.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
04.30.2012 , 09:37 AM | #119
Update Notes: Added Videos in the Suggestion Box. If you have any videos with you as an AP/Tactics Please let me know. Especially if there are clear instructions on them.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Shredzz's Avatar


Shredzz
05.01.2012 , 03:58 AM | #120
I made a build based on full ap in ion gas if you'd check it out theopf would be much appreciated let me know what you think

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=439863
Tomb of Freedon Nadd(EU)
Shredz 50 Powertech
<Take a Seat>