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Nerfs for...more fun?

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ArcIon's Avatar


ArcIon
04.13.2012 , 10:44 AM | #31
The Gunnery tree just needs to be wiped clean and redone.

Just reference numerous threads in these forums as to why, but I guess I'll reiterate. You didn't change the CORE reason as to why Grav Round is getting spammed. Everything in gunnery is tied to it. It is the CORE ability of a Commando. Changing numbers around isn't fixing it, it's just changing the numbers (for better or worse, worse in this case).

what is frustrating is that people were trying to say this all along, but it seemed that no one was listening or cared.

NDiggy's Avatar


NDiggy
04.13.2012 , 10:50 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
Want CoF supposed to proc more? Its not on live unless that was removed from the patch.

At any rate, this nerf doesn't accomplish what BW says they want it to. Plus, why the nerf to charged barrier? Its not like we were impossible to kill, in fact we're the easiest to kill in the game. Explain please.
A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats. -
Benjamin Franklin

Redcorn's Avatar


Redcorn
04.13.2012 , 10:56 AM | #33
This change has made my gunny into the most fun banker in the game....we get the cool armor and store credits and loot. Tanno still builds the best armormech in the game....who doesn't love talking to Elara, and Our ship droid is AWESOME. Then we get to carry that big gun....yeah it only looks tough, but for a banker looks are enough.

With 1.2 I get to put a mailbox in my ship so that makes less moving around and for more fun. I will probably get a ship GTN too...oh the wonderful joy that will bring.

With all this new fun for my main class I will be upping for another 6 months at least.

ScarletKnightBL's Avatar


ScarletKnightBL
04.13.2012 , 11:05 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
I'm not be rude here, but this is simply incorrect, I will give you examples of why.

Example 1 (An unlikely but still possible rotation): Grav round on 1.5 second cooldown. used repeatedly for 15 seconds yields 10 grav round shots, follows by a demo round on 15 second cooldown. Effectively this nerf 9 out of 10 of our attacks (assuming the 10% reduction and 10% boost to demo round cancel out.


Example 2 (Likely commando rotation)

1. Grav round (Yeilds 2 armor stack debuffs, 1 CB Buff, 1 DR buff) 1.5 second cast - No CD
2. Grav round (Yeilds 2 armor stack debuffs, 1 CB Buff, 1 DR buff) 1.5 second cast - No CD
3. Grav round (Yeilds 2 armor stack debuffs, 1 CB Buff, 1 DR buff) 1.5 second cast - No CD
4. Demo Round : 15 sec cooldown
5. Full Auto : 3 second cast - 15 second cooldown
6. Grav round (Yeilds 2 armor stack debuffs, 1 CB Buff, 1 DR buff) 1.5 second cast - No CD
7. Grav round (Yeilds 2 armor stack debuffs, 1 CB Buff, 1 DR buff) 1.5 second cast - No CD
8. High Impact Bolt : 15 second cooldown

Now we still have 7 seconds between the next demo round coming off cooldown, what are we going to do? well maybe hammer shot if ammo is low. But more likely hit ammo regain for one, then reserve powercell for another and pop off 3 more grav rounds to get charged barrel back up, as such the rotation starts again.

Please then explain to me how having effectively 4 out of an 8 attack rotation dmg reduced is not a nerf? (assuming 1 demo increase cancels 1 grav nerf)

Again I'm not trying to be rude, disrespectful ect, the fact remains that this is a nerf and it should be called as such because the amount we have to use grav round to max dps has not changed while it's dmg has.
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Arzoo's Avatar


Arzoo
04.13.2012 , 12:30 PM | #35
If they just buffed curtain of fire to a 100% chance then we'd only use grav round a maximum of twice per full auto, and at least 2 times every 15 seconds we'd only use it once before another full auto.

Irenicus_Jon's Avatar


Irenicus_Jon
04.13.2012 , 12:35 PM | #36
I have a vanguard that is tactics specced (the middle tree that most people do not use). Pretty much my only attacks are ion pulse, fire pulse (15 sec cd) and pulse cannon (15 sec cd). It is actually better to avoid gut and high impact bolt because it reduces your DPS (and high impact bolt actually needs you to gear accuracy).

Does this mean vanguard tactics should change too?

Redcorn's Avatar


Redcorn
04.13.2012 , 12:41 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Irenicus_Jon View Post
I have a vanguard that is tactics specced (the middle tree that most people do not use). Pretty much my only attacks are ion pulse, fire pulse (15 sec cd) and pulse cannon (15 sec cd). It is actually better to avoid gut and high impact bolt because it reduces your DPS (and high impact bolt actually needs you to gear accuracy).

Does this mean vanguard tactics should change too?
When all the commandos change over to vanguard you will see vanguards being nerfed. I am convinced this nerf was not about play style or OP, but because there were just too many commandos. This is why the medic got butt ****ed as well.

Dakc's Avatar


Dakc
04.13.2012 , 01:43 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
Just picked up on the area i highlighted .... one question, Dose this mean that you dont really know or are not too sure, if it is a rebalance or a nerf???
Dakc

Bria vet

Pedra's Avatar


Pedra
04.13.2012 , 04:28 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.
So since 1.2 PvP only meets 2 of your 3 requirements for tweaking (bad and not fun) can we assume that we're stuck with it?

I'm calling it effective in that it puts opposing factions in close enough proximity to kill each other.

dvdlftn's Avatar


dvdlftn
04.13.2012 , 04:43 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
I Really noticed what this change did, you did broaden the rotation spectrum to a degree but I do not believe you balanced the classes as at all as the underlying changes in the amount of damage "Heavy Armor" can take. Either knowingly or unknowingly you have NERFED the hell out of Heavy armor survialbility. A DPS NERF coupled with a Armor nerf makes the class practically usless. except for healing.
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