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Nerfs for...more fun?

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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
04.12.2012 , 11:48 PM | #21
Did EV tonight. Looks like Grav round is accounting for a solid 41% of my damage.


I love that our procs are tied to high damage abilities. What you should do is spread the love around. Put Charged Barrel on Full Auto or Charged Bolts or both, buff Sticky Grenade.


To you the issue may be that you could hit 85% of your damage just spamming grav round. It doesn't change the fact that EVERYTHING is tied to it, so rotations for commandos doing it right aren't gonna change and all we've experienced is a nerf.
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Niconogood's Avatar


Niconogood
04.13.2012 , 03:14 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."
Well, considering the 15 sec CD on demoround and gravround being spammable, and you STILL have to spam it 4-5 times in an average rotation, the DpS loss is pretty severe. Add in that grav round also crits 15% more than other abilities and the DpS loss is horrendous.

As someone suggested, put demoround on 6-7 sec CD and it would be more balanced out.
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GamewizX's Avatar


GamewizX
04.13.2012 , 08:05 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
We didn't use Grav Round because it had the highest damage, we used it because we HAD to, solely because of what it gives aside from damage. Everything is built around spamming that ability. Just because you lowered the damage doesn't change our rotation in the slightest, it just nerfed our overall DPS which did NOT need to happen.

I will admit that our rotation needs help. Our DPS though was FINE. But then change the way grav round works! Don't just nerf the damage of it, that does nothing! Have the multiple buffs and procs it provides be spread across other abilities, THEN we might actually change up our rotation.


I was actually really looking forward to the changes to the Trooper when I first heard about it. What I was told was that our damage would remain roughly the same but our rotation would be changed up to be more dynamic. The EXACT OPPOSITE has occurred. Looks like I'm shelving my Commando for awhile.
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handar's Avatar


handar
04.13.2012 , 08:39 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
I read stuff like this and it drives my absolutely crazy at how Bioware is out of touch with classes. They keep talking about metrics this and metrics that...well I for one think that they need to step away from the metrics and actually PLAY the game. The entire class is centered around grav round. Every single benefit gained in combat with a Trooper is based around Grav round. So let me get this straight, because you nerfed it, I'm suppose to not use it as much? I'm suppose to give up charged barrel? I'm suppose to give armor penetration? I'm suppose to give up damage boost to demo round? You do realize the damage buff to the SKILL YOUR BUFFED and directly tied to the SKILL YOU NERFED????? Does that make sense??

Fail logic is fail.

Arzoo's Avatar


Arzoo
04.13.2012 , 08:48 AM | #25
So the damage distribution on Gunnery abilities is not in a good place. Prior to 1.2 Bioware (and non-commandos apparently) weren't happy with it, and some commandos who hated playing against players who actually interrupted hated it a bit too. Now in 1.2 Commandos are extremely unhappy with it, and players eating 7k demorounds are probably not very happy with it either.

It sounds like there needs to be some more redistribution.


I will say one thing though: please be VERY careful with changes, because if there's one thing I absolutely LOVE about Gunnery, it's the ammo management. Proccing into the 3 second cast (less ammo usage), combined with crit being desirable for ammo management (and the set bonus helping) really feels like it works out well. If you prioritize the right abilities you only have to hammershot a few times in between reserve powercell and recharge cells.

Dakc's Avatar


Dakc
04.13.2012 , 10:00 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
let me get this straight .... you give us everything on one ability, then nerf it by 10% because we use it .... here is a revelation for you were still gunna use/spam it

who every came up with the original idea of grav round doing everything, then this abortion must have the IQ of a beef paste sandwich! sorry thats the nicest way i can put it atm

i wont mention the suvivability nerf in charged barrier, or the AOE nerf in MV
Dakc

Bria vet

Arzoo's Avatar


Arzoo
04.13.2012 , 10:28 AM | #27
What about a solution like this:

1. Reduce demolition round's cooldown to 6-9 seconds. Yes, that is a massive change, keep reading.

2. Let curtain of fire proc off of demolition round.

3. Put the damage reduction buff on Full Auto Rather than grav round. let it stack fairly quickly.

4. Let charged barrel proc off of all rounds + maybe full auto.

5. Reduce Grav round's damage to whatever number you want. It could be zero for all it matters, because in step 6...

6. Set demolition round's damage to WHATEVER NUMBER BALANCES THINGS. We're already using full auto more and gravity round less. Just pick a number that results in the desired sustained dps.

6a. change 2-piece set bonus to affect demolition round rather than gravity round.

Redcorn's Avatar


Redcorn
04.13.2012 , 10:37 AM | #28
1. Do you notice how BW does not have the balls to show us their hard metrics....it is because the actual damage numbers cannot possibly prove these changes as good changes.

2. Nerfs like these come from PVP and not PVE....whiners. For weeks I have been watching the damage numbers in PVP, and guess what....commandos are not close to being top dog.

3. It really does not explain the nerf to commando healing at all.

4. here is what I think happened.....BW looked at the census numbers and said...wow there are a lot of commandos being rolled for the Repub....and thought they needed to curtail that.

5. There are strats to avoid grav spam and to take out a gunny trooper. There are no strats to avoid being stun locked and burned down to death, but that happens to me every WZ.

6. Funny that there is a severe imp/repub imbalance and yet the heavy nerfs came to repub classes.

1.2 decisions in design shows me that BW is lost, that PVE and PVP don't mix, and that imps are favored. Rename this game to SW Sith of the Second Empire.

Redcorn's Avatar


Redcorn
04.13.2012 , 10:39 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Dakc View Post
let me get this straight .... you give us everything on one ability, then nerf it by 10% because we use it .... here is a revelation for you were still gunna use/spam it

who every came up with the original idea of grav round doing everything, then this abortion must have the IQ of a beef paste sandwich! sorry thats the nicest way i can put it atm

i wont mention the suvivability nerf in charged barrier, or the AOE nerf in MV

I really don't believe this had anything to do with spamming grav round. There simply were too many commandos for BW's liking. This explains why medics and gunny got crippled and vanguards and assault were left alone.

GamewizX's Avatar


GamewizX
04.13.2012 , 10:43 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Redcorn View Post
6. Funny that there is a severe imp/repub imbalance and yet the heavy nerfs came to repub classes.
This is just not true. The same changes made to the Commando were the same changes made to the Merc. They got the same nerf we did.
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