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Nerfs for...more fun?

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ItGetsAllOver's Avatar


ItGetsAllOver
04.12.2012 , 03:55 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Victros View Post
From the patch notes, "Grav Round has been rebalanced in order to encourage more active gameplay rotations."

So they nerfed commandos to make them have a rotation that's more fun?

I've seen this kind of logic since EQ. I guess game developers will never learn.

Was there some outcry from the commando community to change their rotation?
They didn't say they wanted to make it more fun. They said "more active gameplay rotations". As in, "We don't want people mindlessly spamming two to three buttons while they play."
Attention forum moderators: I am not a troll, I'm just stupid.

Niconogood's Avatar


Niconogood
04.12.2012 , 04:24 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Victros View Post
From the patch notes, "Grav Round has been rebalanced in order to encourage more active gameplay rotations."

So they nerfed commandos to make them have a rotation that's more fun?

I've seen this kind of logic since EQ. I guess game developers will never learn.

Was there some outcry from the commando community to change their rotation?
The most funny thing is that they didnt change our rotation for jack. They just completely gimped its damage. You are still stuck with spamming grav round about 3/4 spells.

I believe by a more active rotation they mean a LONGER rotation. Before we could kill most stuff in one rotation (fa-gr-gr-gr-dr-fa-gr-gr-hib), now we need 2 of the same rotation to kill the same target. Clever BW, very clever....
R.I.P. Baluba - Commando - Uthar Wynn
R.I.P. Pebbles - Sage - Uthar Wynn
Baluba - Witch Doctor
Baluba - Guardian

stendarrs's Avatar


stendarrs
04.12.2012 , 04:47 PM | #13
This just isn't balance and it certainly doesn't change my rotation or ability use. I typically use at least 20 different abilities in a WZ match. Unfortunately a lot of these abilites have a cooldown so I have to fill my time with something. Hmmm, should I use hammershot or grav round, or maybe charged bolts. The answer is simple, am I moving...yes...I fire hammershot...no...grav round. If they don't want commandos using grav round then they should give us more tools. I volunteer to give up blitz...seriously...who uses this in pvp OR pve?

APeckenpaugh's Avatar


APeckenpaugh
04.12.2012 , 04:54 PM | #14 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.

Masturomenos's Avatar


Masturomenos
04.12.2012 , 05:54 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
Oh so the thousands of posts today saying players are unsubbing and the claases are crap, pvp is broken and the Operation already cleared on hard mode withing 5 hours of patch is what u consider fun?

Please show me who is having fun? I dont think u understand what fun is. Right now everyone is about as angry as they can be.
Worlds greatest PvP guild US Army 75th R.R. "Rangers Lead the Way" Formerly (Scarybadlady & Droppinloads of Banished-Rift)(Masturomenos, Restopharian, Swalowmylight, Drwitch & More of Infernal Affairs-WoW) (Scarybadman of Imperial Affairs, Bootyhunter & Scarybdlady of Spacebar Heroes-SWTOR)

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
04.12.2012 , 06:24 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
For clarity...

YOU have tied in every proc we get TO Grav Round. If you were truly trying to get us to spam the ONE ability that is responsible for added DPS, added defense, debuffs, you COULD have simply tied the numerous procs that Grav Rounds grants to something like Hammer Shot.

This is COMPLETELY your doing. This isn't new...this isn't even a shock dude...we all knew in Beta that Grav Round was the one MUST GET skill for Commandos. It certainly isn't OUR fault you've tied so much to this one flippin skill.

Seriously...do ANY of you play a gunnery Commando? Please explain how giving us one skill that does so much, could have possibly been overlooked or how it being like the ONLY valuable skill we had escaped your sights?! Remove all the procs from it, tie them to Hammer Shot and you'll see a completely new game.

It's like you really don't even understand WHY it was 85% of our damage...
All warfare is based on deception. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected. If his forces are united, separate them. If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near. A leader leads by example not by force.

Typheran's Avatar


Typheran
04.12.2012 , 07:07 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.
What is the logic behind the reduction in survivability? A targeted DPS merc already had low survivability in pvp (excluding rampball) pre-1.2.

NeverRose's Avatar


NeverRose
04.12.2012 , 09:10 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
For clarity, the purpose of the change was to address the issue that Grav Round, on its own, was responsible for too much of your overall DPS. In other words, using totally made up numbers, if all you did was mindlessly spam Grav Round, you could still achieve something like 85% (again, totally made up) of your total damage dealing potential.

Not only was it bad, it wasn't fun (for the target or the caster). When things are bad, not fun, and yet they're still effective, they become high profile candidates for tweaking.

What we did was lower Grav Round's damage and increase Demo Round's damage. I don't know what the net result is off the top of my head, but we feel it's much, much closer to a "rebalance" than an outright "nerf."

And in case you're worried, if it turns out to be more of a nerf than a rebalance (which we don't want to be the case), then we'll fix it. But even then that'll probably be in ways that don't directly affect the damage dealt by Grav Round.

Grav Round places an armor debuff on target.

Grav round charges barels for higher High Impact Bolt damage.

Grav Round increases Commando's survavibility by adding shield stack.

Grav Round increases Demolition Round damage by adding gravity vortexes.

Grav Round procs Curtain of Fire.

It has no cooldown.

It is a tech ability so it bypasses defenses.

It's relatively cheap.

It has relatively short cast time.




With all respect, even if you cut Grav Round damage by half, people would still spam it due to numerous buffs it provides.
It doesn't feel, it doesn't think, it doesn't laugh or cry. All it does from dusk till dawn is make the soldiers die.
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APeckenpaugh's Avatar


APeckenpaugh
04.12.2012 , 09:37 PM | #19 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Quote: Originally Posted by NeverRose View Post
With all respect, even if you cut Grav Round damage by half, people would still spam it due to numerous buffs it provides.
That is correct. However, I'll repeat, the reduction in Grav Round damage was made to address how much damage Grav Round contributes to your total rotation - not to address how many times you press the Grav Round button. Players have run off with the idea that we're trying to eliminate Grav Round spamming, which is not the case. My goal has been to eliminate how effective Grav Round spamming is if it's all you do.

An effective Gunnery rotation still utilizes Grav Round as both a "build up" ability and a "resource dump" ability. That hasn't changed, nor was it my goal to change that. What has changed is that competitive DPS now comes from utilizing all of your key rotational abilities instead of leaning so very heavily on just Grav Round. I hope that's more clear now.

Arzoo's Avatar


Arzoo
04.12.2012 , 09:49 PM | #20
I don't understand how anyone can think that a damage nerf to grav round changes how often it is used.

You want people to use grav round less? Lower the cooldown on Demolition Round. Or High Impact Bolt. Or full auto (or make it a 100% chance to proc CoF). After the initial 3 strikes it's literally the last thing we want to cast (other than hammershot). People use Grav Round so much because there is no choice but to do so. The new demolition round hits for crazy amounts of damage; if it had a 12 or 9 second cooldown no one would care if you cut grav round's damage even more. The CoF buff was nice... but not nearly enough; You're still going to need 2-3 grav rounds against every 1 full auto.