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No free respec for Combat Medics???

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
No free respec for Combat Medics???
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

GmanIII's Avatar


GmanIII
04.19.2012 , 08:14 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Zovyn View Post
I have to say that I'm very unhappy with 1.2 as well, even though the respecs are free, Not giving us one feels like a slap in the face after a class you had so much fun with is gutted.

I'd like to know who thought trying to basically re-balance every class at once was a good idea? I thought we did a pretty good job in beta getting things right in PVE but I knew we were going to have issues in PVP. However, I never thought BW would sweep in and make changes like this in one fell swoop. They should have tweaked one class at a time to balance for PVE and simply changed how the skills worked when used on another player in PVP to achieve the desired balance there.

Having said that, the posts made by the Dev in this thread are just plain outrageous. All I can say is, he's very lucky he doesn't work for me. This is one of the worst cases of poor customer service I've seen in 13 years of playing MMO's.

Very bad form!
Someone has never been on the WoW fourms or the NCsoft forums. Nor have they ever been on the Eve forums or AoC forums. All four of those get so condescending from the developers that it is amazing they have any players left. What I saw on this forum from the developer was actually kind of refreshing. Honesty, with a little bit of a jab, without being condescending. It almost reminds me of a conversation I would have with friendly co-workers, except that the BioWare Rep here was actually nicer than we would have been in "real life".
The problem with Socialism, is eventually you run out of other peoples money to spend.

Solthar's Avatar


Solthar
04.19.2012 , 09:01 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
This, to put it nicely, a kind of self-centred suggestion. That said, it's an easy conclusion to come to when you're the well-informed, knowledge-gathering, systems-minded forum-going type of player. But, believe it or not, that's the minority of any gaming audience. I know it's hard to believe when you look around and all you see is similar knowledge-gathering and knowledge-sharing forum-goers, but that's still the minority.

Most players have their accessibility and understanding of the game damaged when they get a free respec. For most players, this is a jarring and unwelcome experience. We don't want to have to give out respecs at all, which is why it is only limited to when it's technically essential to making your character not break. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still the answer.
Is it about as damaging as the complete and utter destruction of an entire class subtype? How about the negative accessibility for said subtype, especially those who (used) to enjoy PvP?

Would it not be better to offer those who are seriously disgruntled with the changes the option to respec into something, you know, viable.

Your entire stance on the issue of post-gutting respecs is rather disturbing.

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
04.19.2012 , 11:04 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by GmanIII View Post
Honesty, with a little bit of a jab, without being condescending. It almost reminds me of a conversation I would have with friendly co-workers, except that the BioWare Rep here was actually nicer than we would have been in "real life".
What I initially found worse than AP's troll joke (which wasn't that bad) was that this was the post of mine that got a Dev response.

I have over 1600 posts on these forums. They aren't all gold, but a lot of them are on serious topics, and involve questions and issues that a Developer response would be really helpful on. Many people are happy just to see a Dev reply to them, but to have them reply to such a trivial and non-substantial post when there are real questions that are being ignored was very disconcerting.

However, with his 2 subsequent posts in this thread, it is now clear that AP actually just tends to continue the conversation. I replied to him, as did others, and he responded to our responses with my post just happening to be the one he selected to do so. This is in contrast to GZ, who I am much more used to, who has more of a tendency to drop in, troll a thread, and never return.

I really don't think there is much more to say in this thread:
1) Respecs are free weekly.
2) The Devs don't see it as giving a "free respec" they see it as forcing a mandatory reset, and something to avoid.
3) The process is automated and only seemed to exclude Commandos due to a bug giving some other ACs respecs on accident.
4) AP wasn't responding to a trivial post of mine while ignoring substantial questions in other posts/threads, he was just continuing the conversation (which is a good thing...)
5) His troll comment was meant lightheartedly, even if it failed to come off that way in context of the current mood on the forums. The context is also different when within a continuing dialogue (again a good thing) than when its a stray post and how the conversation is left.

The respec issue was always minor and trivial.
The trolling post isn't that big of a deal either. I'm not offended, he's apologized (or made it clear no offense was meant which is the same to me).
Honestly I'd rather have AP attempting a running dialogue with us (poorly received jokes and all) then read another post by GZ. Now if only we could get AP to come talk about something important...
Brushing off the dust on my Assault Cannon. Time to get back in the fight.

XtremJedi's Avatar


XtremJedi
04.20.2012 , 01:12 AM | #74
Sorry to just drop in on this, but I spotted a link somewhere and haven't actually read through the whole thing... but it just seems to me that this is such a non-issue, that I can't really understand why the devs are being difficult about it.

If this were a game where respecs never happen or they are very strongly controlled, then I could perhaps understand the devs being retiscent about giving out free respecs. But Respecs are freely available to anybody from skill mentors - there's a cost attached if you do it a lot of course... but it's not like respecs are strongly controlled in this game. I knew people who would respec between PvP and PvE...

I suppose BW could say that since they're so available, players should pay for them.... but if they're so available, why would you be so stingy with them? In the end... what difference does it make?

Meh... just seems like a pointless argument to have to be having.

X

Chaos_Distortion's Avatar


Chaos_Distortion
04.20.2012 , 08:32 AM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
I know that as an individual, it's easy to rationalize this line of thinking, but understand that we cannot make everyone happy.

If we made judgement calls for who to give respecs to, and a class did not receive a free respec after a change, we'd be accused of "neglecting" that class (just like in this thread!). If we made judgement calls for who to give respecs to, and a class did receive a free respec after a change, we'd be accused of admitting the spec got "gutted," to use your words. And why wouldn't players think that - we just handed them free tickets to go elsewhere, right?

The only fair, honest, and logical way to give free respecs is to base them on technical necessity.


Or, Commando skill points weren't refunded for the reasons I've already given and elaborated on.

Also, devs get standard-issue troll resistance when they join the biz, just FYI.
Holy Jesus, I never thought I would see a developer that could be more arrogant and with a worse holier than thou attitude in this game than Georg, you sir managed to be worse than Georg Zoeller (Unless you are George Zoeller using a different forum name, which is most likely the case.). You implied that a player was a troll, while attempting to troll him in the same post, lol are you serious? If anyone is trolling here, it's you. They are asking legitimate questions and you're giving them answers to purposely piss them off in a trolling manner. I also like those happy face emotes you do to make people mad, I really do.
Empathetic (Chaos Legacy): 50 Scoundrel (Sawbones) Healer, Empathetic: 50 Sage (Seer) Healer on Helm of Graush and various other Alts.
Been playing pvp Support/Healing in nearly every MMO since 1997 UO.

Chaos_Distortion's Avatar


Chaos_Distortion
04.20.2012 , 08:35 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
This, to put it nicely, a kind of self-centred suggestion. That said, it's an easy conclusion to come to when you're the well-informed, knowledge-gathering, systems-minded forum-going type of player. But, believe it or not, that's the minority of any gaming audience. I know it's hard to believe when you look around and all you see is similar knowledge-gathering and knowledge-sharing forum-goers, but that's still the minority.

Most players have their accessibility and understanding of the game damaged when they get a free respec. For most players, this is a jarring and unwelcome experience. We don't want to have to give out respecs at all, which is why it is only limited to when it's technically essential to making your character not break. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still the answer.
Wow, just wow, I don't think you should be posting on the forums, unless you want to piss off more customers. This is clearly a developer trolling, wth Bioware?
Empathetic (Chaos Legacy): 50 Scoundrel (Sawbones) Healer, Empathetic: 50 Sage (Seer) Healer on Helm of Graush and various other Alts.
Been playing pvp Support/Healing in nearly every MMO since 1997 UO.

noladev's Avatar


noladev
04.20.2012 , 08:49 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
This, to put it nicely, a kind of self-centred suggestion. That said, it's an easy conclusion to come to when you're the well-informed, knowledge-gathering, systems-minded forum-going type of player. But, believe it or not, that's the minority of any gaming audience. I know it's hard to believe when you look around and all you see is similar knowledge-gathering and knowledge-sharing forum-goers, but that's still the minority.

Most players have their accessibility and understanding of the game damaged when they get a free respec. For most players, this is a jarring and unwelcome experience. We don't want to have to give out respecs at all, which is why it is only limited to when it's technically essential to making your character not break. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still the answer.
Bioware needs a communications manager. You people are VERY condescending.
Unsubbed 04/12/12 GG Sorc nerfs.

Varteras's Avatar


Varteras
04.20.2012 , 03:42 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by noladev View Post
Bioware needs a communications manager. You people are VERY condescending.
Not nearly as bad as what WoW players get on their forums from time to time and quite frankly considering how nasty, condescending, and outright childish this community can be I have no problem seeing a Bioware employee giving a sharp tongue back to it.
Quote:
Unless you're a stockholder, a Bioware employee, or employee of a rival company... if you're on forums and going out of your way to attack or defend a videogame then I would say you're spending way too much energy doing so and not enough energy trying to figure out what in the world is wrong with you.

Ranevan's Avatar


Ranevan
04.20.2012 , 07:55 PM | #79
This whole thread is an example of WHY devs don't often reply. People think a dev trying to seem human and responding to sarcasm with some of his own is a sign that they are holier than thou. RuQu did troll in his comment. That was met with (what should pass the reasonable person test as) equally light hearted counter trolling. People whine about the counter? Please...

The reason for the lack of re-spec was given by an official person. You don't have to like the answer, but the question was answered. I don't like that I can't force choke people, but the devs aren't about to make me personally telekinetic because I'm a whiner.

If you don't like the game because you got nerfed, sorry, it happens. If you don't like it because they didn't make a mistake in your favor like they did with shadows, sorry they got things right (as they see it) for you. They didn't change how the class worked, they changed how well it worked.

TL: DR Save your whining for things that matter in the game. Which generally does not include one dev's attitude about getting trolled.

Tharenisis's Avatar


Tharenisis
04.21.2012 , 05:47 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Ranevan View Post
This whole thread is an example of WHY devs don't often reply. People think a dev trying to seem human and responding to sarcasm with some of his own is a sign that they are holier than thou. RuQu did troll in his comment. That was met with (what should pass the reasonable person test as) equally light hearted counter trolling. People whine about the counter? Please...

The reason for the lack of re-spec was given by an official person. You don't have to like the answer, but the question was answered. I don't like that I can't force choke people, but the devs aren't about to make me personally telekinetic because I'm a whiner.

If you don't like the game because you got nerfed, sorry, it happens. If you don't like it because they didn't make a mistake in your favor like they did with shadows, sorry they got things right (as they see it) for you. They didn't change how the class worked, they changed how well it worked.

TL: DR Save your whining for things that matter in the game. Which generally does not include one dev's attitude about getting trolled.

Exactly, this is a lose/lose for the mods anyway, if they didn't respond the whiners would be whining like "I'm surprised a mod hasn't commented yet, they must not care about our class then." If they do respond, its always "What arrogance! How dare you respond with a logical argument and attempt to add humor into it!"

Most of the people in this post, are trolls, and they are not hiding it much. You can tell by the self righteous "This helps me unsub" posts. If someone wants to unsub, just do it. Unsub, go play WoW, or GW2, or any other greener grassed game.... having to state especially to a online community that you are unsubbing just shows how egotistical and delusional those people are.

NOBODY CARES. Do you really think the Mods gonna turn around and beg you not to leave? Get off your high horse people, THE GUY COMMUNICATED!!!! One of the biggest complaints I've seen is "no communication on this".. yet someone actually communicates, OBVIOUSLY joking on something...gets flamed. GG guys, you are exactly the reason we don't hear anything.

On the other hand this topic is trivial, you get a weekly unsub, our class ISNT broken, and imho its alot funner in pvp knowing I actually have to try now.
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