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No free respec for Combat Medics???

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Trooper > Commando
No free respec for Combat Medics???
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Azrienov's Avatar


Azrienov
04.19.2012 , 03:54 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post

Also, devs get standard-issue troll resistance when they join the biz, just FYI.
You'll also need standard issue overtime, because stability in this game is gone to the dogs. I doubt anyone is happy with where Commando/Mercs are at that plays one. And to add injury to insult, the classes that you actually said needed to be toned down(I'm looking at you pyro/assault PT/vanguards) really weren't bothered at all...

rjkishida's Avatar


rjkishida
04.19.2012 , 05:20 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
This, to put it nicely, a kind of self-centred suggestion. That said, it's an easy conclusion to come to when you're the well-informed, knowledge-gathering, systems-minded forum-going type of player. But, believe it or not, that's the minority of any gaming audience. I know it's hard to believe when you look around and all you see is similar knowledge-gathering and knowledge-sharing forum-goers, but that's still the minority.

Most players have their accessibility and understanding of the game damaged when they get a free respec. For most players, this is a jarring and unwelcome experience. We don't want to have to give out respecs at all, which is why it is only limited to when it's technically essential to making your character not break. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still the answer.
I agree that giving everyone a free respec when not every classes skill trees have been affected would be a bad idea. However, the Combat Medic skill tree was severely impacted by the patch PERIOD. I dare anyone on the dev team to come up with a comprehensive, in-depth defense of why these major changes did not warrant a free re-spec. Patch 1.2 also severely impacted the Gunnery skill tree. Major changes to 2 skill trees in 1 class and no re-spec? FAIL, just plain fail.

I consider the lack of re-spec and the lack of respect from the dev team to be apalling. This isn't the answer we want to hear. That's probably why you're not a company we want to keep paying a subscription to.

Bwarhol's Avatar


Bwarhol
04.19.2012 , 05:35 PM | #63
This whole reply would carry more weight if City of Heroes hadn't figured out a way to have your cake and eat it too...roughly seven or so years ago. When someone would potentially benefit from a respec due to changes in the game systems, but not require one automatically, they would be credited a free respec, which could then be triggered by a simple /command (/respec, in this case). Those who require respecs to log in, get cleared automatically. Those who may feel they need to respec due to changes can do so. Those who do not feel they need to respec due to changes can opt not to do so. Those devs who are currently stuck between a rock and a hard place dealing with community outrage no longer need to do so.

Literally everybody wins.

TogashiMatsuo's Avatar


TogashiMatsuo
04.19.2012 , 05:46 PM | #64
Wow, can I add "the attitude of the dev in this thread" to the reasons I gave in my unsub survey? I mean, free respecs are not exactly serious business, but come on. These are your responses on the forums while the game appears to be hemorrhaging players?

I feel vindicated, thanks!

Yakito's Avatar


Yakito
04.19.2012 , 06:05 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by TogashiMatsuo View Post
Wow, can I add "the attitude of the dev in this thread" to the reasons I gave in my unsub survey? I mean, free respecs are not exactly serious business, but come on. These are your responses on the forums while the game appears to be hemorrhaging players?

I feel vindicated, thanks!
The hell did you expect? They keep saying that everything's fine and that they're happy with the current state of the game. I don't know about you, but I am a bit of a perfectionist and if it was my creation I'd be ashamed to say such things.
And I could put up with bugs but stupid development decisions? No... Not so many. And my favourite and only class I enjoyed was completely destroyed in my eyes. I can't have any fun on it.
OH, and we SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN A FREE RE-SPEC, purely because we are absolutely useless as healers now. But then again I had to see it with my own eyes first so I'd spec healer anyway... I'd just re-spec right after. So I guess we'd have to have 2 free re-specs to make us happy.

TempestasSilva's Avatar


TempestasSilva
04.19.2012 , 06:11 PM | #66
This thread is amazing...and not in a good way in spite of the fact that I truly respect several of the posters. The simple fact is that while I will be the first to complain about many aspects of the nerfing of my class, not getting a free respec didn't make the list. Not only did the changes not break the tree in spite of making us all re-evaluate our choices and possibly want to respec, but its free once a week and even respecing multiple times costs peanuts compared to say buying a single Reflex stim which costs 30k credits on my GTN. Tilt at windmills much?

The only thing I find more absurd than complaining about this in the first place is the fact that it drew a Bioware response.

Of all the questions asked about what your "metrics" were showing that caused you to believe we needed nerfs and of all the reasonable questions asked about why of all things you chose to use our resource efficiency and signature skill to effect the changes, you choose answer one about not getting a free respec?

One of the biggest reasons people are outraged about the lack of a free respect is because of the frustration resulting from a complete blindside nerf that we received and the complete lack of any real explanation as to why it was needed and why it was implemented the way it was. "Healers were too good" does not really answer the questions that IMO still deserve to be answered. Yet instead of addressing these issues, you respond to this one?

RuQu could not have said it better:
Quote: Originally Posted by RuQu View Post
...you guys (Bioware) really need to improve your communication, in both directions, with players... Hopefully this thread can serve a larger purpose, and be used to convince the Powers That Be that the Community Relations Department needs a larger staff and that keeping the players in ignorance is not a path to happy players.
Devs: Please make healing more interesting and fun by increasing options and meaningful decisions. Let a good healer be judged by the decisions they make, not who pressed the buttons in a certain order. Or which class has the most output.

Arzoo's Avatar


Arzoo
04.19.2012 , 06:31 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by rjkishida View Post
I agree that giving everyone a free respec when not every classes skill trees have been affected would be a bad idea. However, the Combat Medic skill tree was severely impacted by the patch PERIOD. I dare anyone on the dev team to come up with a comprehensive, in-depth defense of why these major changes did not warrant a free re-spec. Patch 1.2 also severely impacted the Gunnery skill tree. Major changes to 2 skill trees in 1 class and no re-spec? FAIL, just plain fail.

I consider the lack of re-spec and the lack of respect from the dev team to be apalling. This isn't the answer we want to hear. That's probably why you're not a company we want to keep paying a subscription to.
The changes to Gunnery I could see not needing a respec because the only real changes to talent value were to talents that, if you took before, you'd still take again; there simply isn't anything noticeably better to take.

Combat Medics though... They absolutely butchered talents. 3% SITUATIONAL healing for TWO TALENT POINTS? How could they possibly think that people wouldn't want to immediately swap their talent points around? The only worse talent point cost is the hilarious 10+ tactics vanguards spend on their underwhelming HiB.

Himuki's Avatar


Himuki
04.19.2012 , 06:32 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
I know that as an individual, it's easy to rationalize this line of thinking, but understand that we cannot make everyone happy.

If we made judgement calls for who to give respecs to, and a class did not receive a free respec after a change, we'd be accused of "neglecting" that class (just like in this thread!). If we made judgement calls for who to give respecs to, and a class did receive a free respec after a change, we'd be accused of admitting the spec got "gutted," to use your words. And why wouldn't players think that - we just handed them free tickets to go elsewhere, right?

The only fair, honest, and logical way to give free respecs is to base them on technical necessity.


Or, Commando skill points weren't refunded for the reasons I've already given and elaborated on.

Also, devs get standard-issue troll resistance when they join the biz, just FYI.
What a horribly off-putting and arrogant post...

For the record, this is the first time I've ever posted in these forums but judging from the callous attitude you've displayed, I'm sure my response and departure from this game will be well met with "Don't let the door hit your *** on the way out! We've got a million more subs anyway!".

I have been playing MMOs for almost 15 years and NEVER have I felt compelled to leave a game after only 4 months of playing (especially one I enjoyed as much as this one... at least for a short time anyway). I have neither the time nor patience to detail the laundry list of issues I have with this game, but there have been a multitude of intelligent, well written posts by better players much smarter than myself addressing these issues to be met either with deafening silence, or patronized with "We know best but thanks for your feedback!" condescension.

This kind of immature "I'm immune to trolls because I'm industry elite" response to a frustrated player making a harmless, sarcastic remark is the final straw for me. If you can't behave decently in your posts, how can I trust you with any kind of legitimate decision-making in game? Ugh...

Goodbye EA/BW, I'm sure I won't be missed.

Zovyn's Avatar


Zovyn
04.19.2012 , 06:52 PM | #69
I have to say that I'm very unhappy with 1.2 as well, even though the respecs are free, Not giving us one feels like a slap in the face after a class you had so much fun with is gutted.

I'd like to know who thought trying to basically re-balance every class at once was a good idea? I thought we did a pretty good job in beta getting things right in PVE but I knew we were going to have issues in PVP. However, I never thought BW would sweep in and make changes like this in one fell swoop. They should have tweaked one class at a time to balance for PVE and simply changed how the skills worked when used on another player in PVP to achieve the desired balance there.

Having said that, the posts made by the Dev in this thread are just plain outrageous. All I can say is, he's very lucky he doesn't work for me. This is one of the worst cases of poor customer service I've seen in 13 years of playing MMO's.

Very bad form!
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GmanIII's Avatar


GmanIII
04.19.2012 , 08:09 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by TempestasSilva View Post
This thread is amazing...and not in a good way in spite of the fact that I truly respect several of the posters. The simple fact is that while I will be the first to complain about many aspects of the nerfing of my class, not getting a free respec didn't make the list. Not only did the changes not break the tree in spite of making us all re-evaluate our choices and possibly want to respec, but its free once a week and even respecing multiple times costs peanuts compared to say buying a single Reflex stim which costs 30k credits on my GTN. Tilt at windmills much?

The only thing I find more absurd than complaining about this in the first place is the fact that it drew a Bioware response.

Of all the questions asked about what your "metrics" were showing that caused you to believe we needed nerfs and of all the reasonable questions asked about why of all things you chose to use our resource efficiency and signature skill to effect the changes, you choose answer one about not getting a free respec?

One of the biggest reasons people are outraged about the lack of a free respect is because of the frustration resulting from a complete blindside nerf that we received and the complete lack of any real explanation as to why it was needed and why it was implemented the way it was. "Healers were too good" does not really answer the questions that IMO still deserve to be answered. Yet instead of addressing these issues, you respond to this one?

RuQu could not have said it better:
I honestly did not know that you get a free respec per week. Now that I do, I am supremely mystified as to what the complaint is about not getting a free respec after the patch. With that in mind, and keeping in mind I found the responses from BioWare to be hilarious, I don't see what all the hubub is about. You get 52 free respecs with this game every year and you are upset that you did not get 1 more? Amazing.

As for the "blindside nerf" and why they didn't explain it, I would say it was pretty obvious to ANYONE that has played this particular build. Heck, I don't even watch the numbers much and could tell the build was OP'd. As a matter of fact, I deleted mine because the OP made it no fun to play.
The problem with Socialism, is eventually you run out of other peoples money to spend.