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No free respec for Combat Medics???

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Trooper > Commando
No free respec for Combat Medics???
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Elyx's Avatar


Elyx
04.17.2012 , 08:27 PM | #51
For the most part, I think this thread is a bunch of whining that would put 8 yr olds to shame. I'm even OK with the troll comment. the guys was being rude, after all. I find it pretty hypocritical that it's OK for a forum poster to be rude, but a casual Troll comment is unacceptable. He really was being a troll.

I'm even OK with the changes....The only thing that really puzzles me is the reset. I could CARE LESS if my merc got the reset. But it is weird that the shadow/assassin got one, and the merc didn't. just weird. but the rest of the thread...

..yeah....whine some more plx. I can get behind the reset thing...if it wasn't so cheap to do it already. but it is confusing...I had to respec my shadow....into the same skills....that didn't change...
"I just hit 50 and finished my class storyline, but I still haven't been able to decide which AC to choose. Leveling solo as a warrior wasn't difficult, so I kept putting off the decision.
Anyone else having the same problem? "~ lagerhat - And who says warriors are broke?

DocScarecrow's Avatar


DocScarecrow
04.17.2012 , 09:13 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
I know that as an individual, it's easy to rationalize this line of thinking, but understand that we cannot make everyone happy.

If we made judgement calls for who to give respecs to, and a class did not receive a free respec after a change, we'd be accused of "neglecting" that class (just like in this thread!). If we made judgement calls for who to give respecs to, and a class did receive a free respec after a change, we'd be accused of admitting the spec got "gutted," to use your words. And why wouldn't players think that - we just handed them free tickets to go elsewhere, right?

The only fair, honest, and logical way to give free respecs is to base them on technical necessity.


Or, Commando skill points weren't refunded for the reasons I've already given and elaborated on.

Also, devs get standard-issue troll resistance when they join the biz, just FYI.
Wow... thanks for making my decision to unsub that much easier. To be honest, I think enough people are unsubbing already, no need to make snide comments towards the already frustrated player base such as this to kill the game any faster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUUWIgm5ssE
Working as intended....I lul'd
Alliance Rogue Squadron

Alecz's Avatar


Alecz
04.18.2012 , 09:13 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
I know that as an individual, it's easy to rationalize this line of thinking, but understand that we cannot make everyone happy.
You could give everyone a free respec, you know. That would probably be easier even than choosing who gets and who does not get.

APeckenpaugh's Avatar


APeckenpaugh
04.18.2012 , 08:58 PM | #54 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by Alecz View Post
You could give everyone a free respec, you know. That would probably be easier even than choosing who gets and who does not get.
This, to put it nicely, a kind of self-centred suggestion. That said, it's an easy conclusion to come to when you're the well-informed, knowledge-gathering, systems-minded forum-going type of player. But, believe it or not, that's the minority of any gaming audience. I know it's hard to believe when you look around and all you see is similar knowledge-gathering and knowledge-sharing forum-goers, but that's still the minority.

Most players have their accessibility and understanding of the game damaged when they get a free respec. For most players, this is a jarring and unwelcome experience. We don't want to have to give out respecs at all, which is why it is only limited to when it's technically essential to making your character not break. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still the answer.

Frisemort's Avatar


Frisemort
04.19.2012 , 07:23 AM | #55
Calling RuQu a troll...

This company needs to have a better look at who they hire.

ErrantMercenary's Avatar


ErrantMercenary
04.19.2012 , 08:07 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Smaltie View Post
Out of all the posts I've read on the forum today, and I've read a fair few... this is by far the most petty.

The reason given makes perfect sense, classes got talent respecs so that you could LOG ONTO YOUR CHARACTER, they couldn't simply set the cost to 0 and let you toggle a respec as you'd have points in a skill you couldn't possibly get, talents were moved to other trees and re-designed.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've respec'd 0-1 time in the week leading up to 1.2, a cost of 0 credits or less then 2k, that's terrible.

After reading the OPs post and subsequent posts I wonder why you've not un-subbed yet, you don't seem to get any enjoyment out of the game, pre or post patch.

So much BW bashing, if it's this bad go play AoC.
You've read the subsequent posts and yet you don't think the dev response is childish or petty? Sure it's a simple quality of life thing, but considering a class which saw no structural change got a free respec, the logic doesn't hold up. Why exactly do you expect Combat Medics to endure being under the developer's thumb?

More importantly, will you remember this post when it's you on the chopping block and not someone else?

I hope so, because I've yet to see anyone endure as much abuse as RuQu and still try to be polite and reasoned in a dialogue to improve the game not only for himself, but for the community at large, and yet he's LITERALLY treated dismissively, like his words were spoken by an eight year old that couldn't possibly have any idea what he's talking about. To say I am not optimistic about your chances of being that cool would be an understatement.


But most of all: Why do you care? This is a line of communication between aggrieved players and an unresponsive development team. Why do you feel obligated to defend BioWare? Clearly, they are delivering a game experience you enjoy. How would us getting a deserved respec so we can adapt to changes in how our class operates at a fundamental level (especially when classes who saw no changes got one) change your fun level at all? How is yelling at us any less petty than us demanding so much as a SCRAP of worthwhile developer attention?
Don't worry guys, my motorcycle safety course was three whole days.

Varteras's Avatar


Varteras
04.19.2012 , 01:51 PM | #57
Devs have to deal with children talking down to them specifically or in blanket statements. The truth is this is one of the most petty and childish forum communities I've seen for a videogame in a long time. As far as I'm concerned I'm more than okay with watching the devs dish it out from time to time. Especially when they're calling it as they see it. In this case, certain posters making comments or asking questions that aren't genuine and are intended as veiled stabs at the devs.
Quote:
Unless you're a stockholder, a Bioware employee, or employee of a rival company... if you're on forums and going out of your way to attack or defend a videogame then I would say you're spending way too much energy doing so and not enough energy trying to figure out what in the world is wrong with you.

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
04.19.2012 , 01:53 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post

This, to put it nicely, a kind of self-centred suggestion. That said, it's an easy conclusion to come to when you're the well-informed, knowledge-gathering, systems-minded forum-going type of player. But, believe it or not, that's the minority of any gaming audience. I know it's hard to believe when you look around and all you see is similar knowledge-gathering and knowledge-sharing forum-goers, but that's still the minority.

Most players have their accessibility and understanding of the game damaged when they get a free respec. For most players, this is a jarring and unwelcome experience. We don't want to have to give out respecs at all, which is why it is only limited to when it's technically essential to making your character not break. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still the answer.

The "you get a free respec" system is automated. It happens when skill tree structure changes. We don't do it by hand. If Shadows got a free respec, then there's a bug in the system and we'll investigate. Thanks for pointing that out.


As before, there is solid reasoning here. I, personally, don't like getting my talents refunded and it was a minor annoyance on my Shadow which had no real changes, especially since respeccing wipes and refills skill-given abilities from your bars.

I know I probably sound like a broken record (a broken what? It's like a big DVD...they repeat themsel...you know what nevermind), when I say this, but it is meant with all the best intentions: you guys (Bioware) really need to improve your communication, in both directions, with players.

If the system is automated, I would have lead with that and said something like a combination of those two posts of yours that I've mashed together: "We try to avoid respecs as they are jarring, etc. We have an automated system in place that only resets skills if they are technically necessary. If Shadows got a skill reset, that is a bug and we will look into it."

Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post

Sorry you feel that way. I wasn't trying to be mean. I answered RuQu's real questions and had some fun with his "not real" question:

Maybe "/facepalm" would have been more appropriate?
/facepalm would have been a perfectly appropriate response to my sarcasm. It would have amused me at least.

I think, again, the problem is related to communication. I know you don't have many posts (60ish), but that says nothing about how often you personally read and don't speak. If you don't know, the healer community and the Commando/Merc healers in particular feel a bit persecuted by this last patch. When it looks like there was an arbitrary decision to not give a respec to such a nerfed class while giving one to Shadows, it looks like the class as a whole is being trolled by the Developers. Your first response would have been perfectly fine in a vacuum, but with the current feelings of the Community to have someone with a record of posting for the benefit of that community (namely me) called a troll feels like an attack on the Healer Community as a whole, which is why you saw the posts replying to what was otherwise a minor joke. In light of the current atmosphere my sarcasm, while slightly rude, was seen as justifiable exasperation on the part of a volunteer spokesman, and your joke, while lighthearted and inoffensive in isolation, was seen as dismissive of the frustration that my sarcasm expressed when taken in context.

I appreciate that you are taking the time to actually respond to the responses to your comments in this thread. I hope that this silliness (over something as small as free respecs which are free weekly anyway and which is apparently an automated system) will help drive home to you that importance of good communication with the player community. Hopefully this thread can serve a larger purpose, and be used to convince the Powers That Be that the Community Relations Department needs a larger staff and that keeping the players in ignorance is not a path to happy players.
Brushing off the dust on my Assault Cannon. Time to get back in the fight.

Ancen's Avatar


Ancen
04.19.2012 , 02:19 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by APeckenpaugh View Post
This, to put it nicely, a kind of self-centred suggestion. That said, it's an easy conclusion to come to when you're the well-informed, knowledge-gathering, systems-minded forum-going type of player. But, believe it or not, that's the minority of any gaming audience. I know it's hard to believe when you look around and all you see is similar knowledge-gathering and knowledge-sharing forum-goers, but that's still the minority.

Most players have their accessibility and understanding of the game damaged when they get a free respec. For most players, this is a jarring and unwelcome experience. We don't want to have to give out respecs at all, which is why it is only limited to when it's technically essential to making your character not break. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, but it's still the answer.
Most people here won't believe it, but having a few relatives and RL friends who play, it is indeed jarring for them and they wonder what happened/why, when they're given a forced respec in MMO's. You're spot-on with this post.

noahjam's Avatar


noahjam
04.19.2012 , 02:41 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Ancen View Post
Most people here won't believe it, but having a few relatives and RL friends who play, it is indeed jarring for them and they wonder what happened/why, when they're given a forced respec in MMO's. You're spot-on with this post.
I know exactly what you mean.