Who Swtor was made for.

That is why they should, and do, cater to the bread and butter ( and income ) of any major MMO, the casual player.

Darth (and Dawn's reply, which Darth commented on it), very nice posts. I'm not in your 'camp' with respect to play style and what I expect out of an MMO (though played many of the old ones, and didn't like how difficult they were then, the new breed of game is more my pace).

Having said that, what is even more unfortunate about the quote (regarding costs and target audiences), is I think when the games get more cost effective to build again such that niche markets are profitable again (100-200k subs for 2-3 years makes the game worth it to build), that somehow we (people like me, who play a lot, but prefer content which isn't quite as difficult) will be the losers.

It's you folks who write the best walk-throughs, the best guides, the best builds, the best fan databases. It's many of you who, when they feel nice, give a little 'back' to the community and will gladly do a PUG run every so often and help people learn how to do some of the harder content (I recall back in the day big guilds hosting 20 man raids in LotRO where they'd take quite a few 'general public' folks along so they'd get to experience it).

You guys and gals are all 'part' of the community, and I hope the answer isn't that we eventually have to fragment that to get what everyone is looking for.

But at any rate, I just wanted to comment on how much I enjoyed seeing a good post that was a nice 20k ft level view of the state of the genre, from a demographic perspective.

I would suggest that you start having a look around, there are plenty. Spreading misinformation is a dangerous thing.

Which ones? Besides EVE Online, that is. I am genuinely curious.

There are a few VERY niche games, MO and DF come to mind, without looking into the asia market

As I said, VERY niche but VERY vocal

Shadowbane proved that hardcore PVP players cannot sustain a game, so they're out.

This game is made for me. Huge Star Wars fan, very casual. I've been playing since day 1 of early access, have yet to hit 50 and having a great time. Thank you Bioware, I love this game.

Basically we the minority, the hardcore few will never change the aims of this game and would be silly to even try to. Accept What the game is, then evaluate if it is for you. Anything more is just trying to change something that was obviously not meant for your play style.

The thing is, the definition of "Hardcore Gamer" means different things to different people. For some, it means being completionists. To others, it means playing games on the most difficult settings. And in some cases, it means that you spend a significant amount of hours per week playing video/computer games. I happen to fall into the later category, and because of this, I am termed "hardcore" even though I rarely complete games (which includes reaching end level in MMOs) or play them on the hardest setting. But I do spend the vast majority of my time per week playing video/computer games, so I am considered "hardcore". To be honest, MMOs need to appeal to the widest audience possible if they are to remain "massive". Catering to only a certain segment of the market while alienating others is not good business sense when it comes to MMOs.