Who Swtor was made for.

Cite your facts.

Very nice post. I feel the same way, but my focus is role-playing. There are RP elements in SWTOR just as there are HC elements but I do not feel the game is built for either, nor will it ever be. Even the RP servers are not built for RP, but at least we do have a server with a label, which is more than the HC crowd has.

Perhaps when the game settles in for the long haul Bioware will go back and look at creating a truer RP server and maybe introduce an HC server type for those who enjoy it. If an idea has the potential to boost profits I have no doubt it will be looked at.

links to facts are not needed
1 swg no hardcore raid just alot of other stuff everyone agrees was dying
2 wow cata expantion took away the hardcore factor of raiding and subs took a huge hit
At least there head developer publicly said that cata was a mistake and every wow person that left is waiting to see what pandora is going to like for hardcore pvers
3 swtor no hardcore anything and server population is droping fast cuz no replay factor for ops due to being so easy even on nm. THIS i can say is the main reason my full server is now light and standard at peak. been in 4 big guild that all quit for this reason so did all my friends from other mmos. Even as a causual player this game is way to easy. Its show up and have the world handed to you, this wont keep the subs rolling for the long run.

Hardcore?

Absolutely the worst label to use when trying to put a point across. everyone thinks their hardcore, I like to PvP I would say I am a hard core Pvp'r as it dominates my game time (or would if it had a little more variety).

SWTOR is a raid centric game. The endgame content reflects it. Unfortunately it has some of the worst grouping mechanics I have ever seen. I trust they will fix that, hopefully before they've whittled their server list to 10.

That being said I will not be a long time subscriber because doing the same 4 dungeons over and over and over simply does not do it for me. Dailies, Weeklies, Hardmodes? Hardmodes seem to me to be the very laziest form of level content.

Everyone looks the same, everyone has the same build. You can tell what your dealing with by looking at their weapon. the eight base stories are OK for gaming but once their done its just pure dee white milk. PvP is fun until you spend an entire evening playing huttball. Illum might have been a good idea but it was so badly designed.

SWTOR like so many titles that have come before was made for people with fifty bucks. That's who they made it for, its a wide demographic and contains everyone whose ever heard of a lightsaber.

But those aren't facts, those are observations.

Stopped reading right there.

MMO's do NOT need "hardcore raid", as you put it, to be successful or good.

"hardcore raid" is just a single part of a single genre of MMO.

What killed SWG had nothing to do with raiding, it was the constant changing of the game from the ****** developer.

Your "facts" are simply opinions based upon the idea that every MMO should cater to you and your playstyle alone.

they barely even count as that.

SWG did quite well despite being on the whole a terrible game. It lasted nearly 8 years and had a respectable sub count for its time.

WoW Cata raiding was more difficult than WOTLK, so I don't really see how that supports his conclusion that it caused a drop in subs. If anything, it should have caused an increase.

We don't have any conclusive evidence that the population has dropped for SWTOR. People play less once they've finished the content, and a lot of people have. That's all it is. Claiming that subscription numbers are down and the game is failing based on that is laughably ignorant.

I think primarily for casual gamers who don't raid.

The legacy system is definitely made for solo players, altoholics, role players.
Story in an MMO, made for RPG fans.

You are absolutely correct. In the end, it's a matter of expectations. Like the main MMO I used to play, I expected SWTOR to be of similar caliber. I expected to play SWTOR for years. Instead, I will only be playing for months. Currently set to unsub this month, but will probably resub for 1.2 since it appears they are holding the release of the Patch until after the next round of monthly sub renewals (as expected).

I was part of EGA, but I didn't rush through the content, at least by my playstyle standards. I didn't even participate in Beta. When I reached level 50 in a month playing in a way that I perceived as casual, I began to suspect my participation in this game wouldn't last long.

Sad thing is, this game didn't need much more to keep me interested/involved. Its content just needed to be a bit more challenging, and it just needed to have some good OPvP. That would have been enough to keep me happy for a long, long time. Unfortunately, BW botched Ilum and their OPvP world designs horribly. OPvP is pretty much non-existent in this game as a result, and after 1.2, is pretty much being shirked entirely. Not to mention that the PvE content is just stupid easy, and it seemingly gets easier with each patch.

So I'm very disappointed. I really loved Star Wars, really enjoyed KOTOR, and in the past had always been impressed by BW titles. I just wanted to have years of MMO fun and give BW lots of my money, but in the end, I'm not their target demographic and they don't want it. Oh well. On to the next game...

Yeah your statement almost fits me. Not much of a role player though and I probably would raid if my guild really pushed me to get on a level 50 and do so, so long as I had time to.

Other than that, I love playing through the stories and I love solo queuing for sub-50 PvP. I definitely love alts and learning the other classes. Definitely has been my type of game.

This has surprised me that such a theme park game would be my game. I actually prefer sandbox games in the past where I could wander around doing nothing more than what I wanted to do myself and if someone wanted to come with, all the better; or if I ran into someone to travel around with, fine. It just turns out, there is enough them based content where I sort of have that freedom here. Not that I wouldn't mind a more sandbox type area to be added to the game; but I am solo yet never really alone.