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Who Swtor was made for.


Gavin_Darkl's Avatar


Gavin_Darkl
04.09.2012 , 06:19 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Seregul View Post
The words "casual" and "hardcore" are almost entirely without any concrete meaning. Mostly they're used as derogatory labels.
I am with Seregul here.

I get called a Hardcore elitist because I don't think players should get gear that drops off of raid bosses if they do not raid or cant down the boss. Too me its simple, and the same goes with people I raid with. If we have no reason to raid then cause its a challenge then we just will not do it. Right now we could do nightmare modes but guess what the gear is the same as hard mode, why put forth the effort. We look at this game like joining a bowling league if everyone got a trophy no matter if they won or lost what is the point of even showing up. But I am a hardcore elitist because I feel that risk + Effort = reward.

Anyways again people will vote with their subscriptions.

Alconos's Avatar


Alconos
04.09.2012 , 06:21 PM | #142
i am so glad i dont have to be a hardcore mmo gamer to enjoy this lol
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Gavin_Darkl's Avatar


Gavin_Darkl
04.09.2012 , 06:28 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Rivethed View Post
Almost got it- i'll give you a B for effort.



And what are the "HC" going for? What rewards? The same rewards as the "casuals"?
In a better developed game, the more time you put in the more / better rewards you get. That makes sense yes?

In the perfect MMO, all players would have access to all content; However, how far you get in "end game' content depends on how well you play / what you are willing to do ( research etc).

Still with me? Okay...an example-

Wrath of the Lich King, for World of Warcraft, was IMO, the best that game had to offer. Yes! it was "easy" to get epics but those epics were entry-level raid items. This means that even the Great Unwashed could at least gear up for ENTRY-LEVEL raiding; how you performed beyond that was up to the individual player.

But! Oh my the "HC" went ape-****. How dare these pigglings enter our houses!

And its a vicious cycle.

Blizzard did the right thing with WotLC, and I was hoping for more with Cata but...yeah. So I turned my gaze to SWTOR and...
WTOLK had 1 good idea. Entry Level raids And being able to get back up to the gear curve after a break from the game. This allowed people who had to take a 6 month break for real life a chance to get back into the raiding game. Good idea, problem was the skill level of players dropped during WOTLK. CC went out the window and it was a basic AoE tank and spank, blame it on the healers when someone died. Then they brought Cata out. Had Cata come out right after TBC no one would have had problems with knowing Star is sap, circle is sheep, square is trap. These were skills that players knew. They could do kill orders with the eyes closed, but WOTLK instances ruined this.

Had they left the need for CC and kill orders up, players to know their class in WOTLK only brought in what they did with gearing up if you step away from the game things would have been good. Also if they would have had better lock outs were you could only do a 25 or 10 man raid there would have been fewer guild jumpers.

Gavin_Darkl's Avatar


Gavin_Darkl
04.09.2012 , 06:32 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Alconos View Post
i am so glad i dont have to be a hardcore mmo gamer to enjoy this lol
Alconos,

You should not have to be a hardcore MMO gamer to enjoy any MMO. However I feel that effort + risk = reward I look at it like joining a bowling league and trying to win a championship, not everyone should get a trophy. (Not everyone should get the raid gear off a raid boss. If they do not kill it they did not earn the right to the loot) Raids now a days can be done in 2 hours that is not hardcore by a long shot. I remember raiding 4 to 5 nights a week from 8pm til 4am. That was hardcore. Raiding from 830 to 1030 11 is not, its casual game play.

Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
04.09.2012 , 06:35 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Darkl View Post
WTOLK had 1 good idea. Entry Level raids And being able to get back up to the gear curve after a break from the game. This allowed people who had to take a 6 month break for real life a chance to get back into the raiding game. Good idea, problem was the skill level of players dropped during WOTLK. CC went out the window and it was a basic AoE tank and spank, blame it on the healers when someone died. Then they brought Cata out. Had Cata come out right after TBC no one would have had problems with knowing Star is sap, circle is sheep, square is trap. These were skills that players knew. They could do kill orders with the eyes closed, but WOTLK instances ruined this.

Had they left the need for CC and kill orders up, players to know their class in WOTLK only brought in what they did with gearing up if you step away from the game things would have been good. Also if they would have had better lock outs were you could only do a 25 or 10 man raid there would have been fewer guild jumpers.
Whilst agree with you on nearly everything you wrote i cannot agree with you on the gear curve and people taking a break part. the whole point of being in a guild and a hardcore guild at that is that you stay current with the gear curve within your guild for what you are going after.

Its also the responsibility of the guild to help players who have fallen behind even if that means most of the guild going back to previous encounters to help the people who have taken a break for 6 months to attain the required gear level.

Doing this does one of 3 things, First it helps the player who has been away for 6 months or so to fit back into the team as there designated role, Second to allow the player who has taken a break to see and master possible new fight mechanics and to experience old content they have missed as that is one of the most shouted things going that they do this so people get to see all content when infact it means most just bypass most of the content and hit the current played content. And Third allows the person who has taken a break to attain the required gear by downing the correct tier of content that is the step up to the next content.

This was the major flaw in wow when they removed the need for attunments, if they had left attunments in then it would have inspired people to see all content instead of badge farm until they hit the gear level required for the hardest raid that your guild had progressed to whilst you had been away.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

Vexxeen's Avatar


Vexxeen
04.09.2012 , 06:40 PM | #146
so in other words your bad?

Gavin_Darkl's Avatar


Gavin_Darkl
04.09.2012 , 06:47 PM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Shingara View Post
Whilst agree with you on nearly everything you wrote i cannot agree with you on the gear curve and people taking a break part. the whole point of being in a guild and a hardcore guild at that is that you stay current with the gear curve within your guild for what you are going after.

Its also the responsibility of the guild to help players who have falen behind even if that means most of the guild going back to previous encounters to help the people who have taken a break for 6 months to attain the required gear level.

Doing this does one of 3 things, First it helps the player who has been away for 6 months or so to fit back into the team as there designated role, Second to allow the player who has taken a break to see and master possible new fight mechanics and to experience old content they have missed as that is one of the most shouted things going that they do this so people get to see all content when infact it means most just bypass most of the content and hit the current played content. And Third allows the person who has taken a break to attain the required gear by downing the correct tier of content that is the step up to the next content.

This was the major flaw in wow when they removed the need for attunments, if they had left attunments in then it would have inspired people to see all content instead of badge farm until they hit the gear level required for the hardest raid that your guild had progressed to whilst you had been away.
For the most part I wouldn't disagree with you if most guilds would help out or that person would take the responsibility on themselves to organize raids. Problem is for the most part progression minded guilds often leave these players behind, not without reason I will say, and often times these players do not feel the need to organize these raids when they come back. They lease that part up to the guild officers/leaders to do it for them. Now with that said, it was much easier to get people geared up in a 10 man raid vs a 25 man raid because its much harder on non raid nights to get 10 people to go through older raids that they gone through then 25 mans. Look at TBC if they had a 10 man version of all the 25 man raids, a person that was done with T4 Kara and Gruul could get up to a guild that was in the Sunwell if there was a 10 man version of SCC and TK.

Also extended lockouts helped out. They did need to have some way to help get people back up to the gear curve, because without it many people do just quit raiding all together.

Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
04.09.2012 , 06:53 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Darkl View Post
For the most part I wouldn't disagree with you if most guilds would help out or that person would take the responsibility on themselves to organize raids. Problem is for the most part progression minded guilds often leave these players behind, not without reason I will say, and often times these players do not feel the need to organize these raids when they come back. They lease that part up to the guild officers/leaders to do it for them. Now with that said, it was much easier to get people geared up in a 10 man raid vs a 25 man raid because its much harder on non raid nights to get 10 people to go through older raids that they gone through then 25 mans. Look at TBC if they had a 10 man version of all the 25 man raids, a person that was done with T4 Kara and Gruul could get up to a guild that was in the Sunwell if there was a 10 man version of SCC and TK.

Also extended lockouts helped out. They did need to have some way to help get people back up to the gear curve, because without it many people do just quit raiding all together.
Well thats why nearly every hardcore guild run serious alt runs, there would be no reason for the player coming back to not drop into that group until they caught up. that said aswell nearly every hardcore guild has standbys and someone will have taken there spot which seems alien to alot of mmo players these days.

But i can remember when i used to raid seriously being the kitter/dps standby, i wasnt required for all fights and knew my role was to be on standby for specific fights when my role wasnt required the whole time within the raid. If you suggested that to most of the hardcores these days they would swear you were insane.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731

Bluerodian's Avatar


Bluerodian
04.09.2012 , 07:06 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Shingara View Post
Right, so there biggest ip on the market is swtor, they get revenue from swtor based on profits and are advertising swtor themselves and you think they really are going to put in a direct competitor to there money earner that they have invested at best 6 years into ?

Least to mention its well known that ea companys do intergrate with other houses under there control and that you dont think the best people to goto on stuff like space would be light and magic ?
Yes. They would put in a direct competitor, because at the end of the day they stand to profit MORE by having TOR and TOR's direct competitor. LA would get to take from both sides at the same time.
Long time player of SWG from cradle to grave. First Kettemoor, then Starsider.

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Shingara's Avatar


Shingara
04.09.2012 , 07:22 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by Bluerodian View Post
Yes. They would put in a direct competitor, because at the end of the day they stand to profit MORE by having TOR and TOR's direct competitor. LA would get to take from both sides at the same time.
I can only laugh at this as if this were infact the case LA would have just let swg carry on along its merry way giving money to lucas with no investment at all by LA.
Health Warning - Thread May Contain Nuts.
First, you can continue as a subscriber, which gives you unlimited access to all game features and future Game Updates at no additional charge. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20120731