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On Luke & Mara Jade getting married...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
On Luke & Mara Jade getting married...

ZayneDraay's Avatar


ZayneDraay
04.07.2012 , 06:15 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthKaratus View Post
I understand that Yoda or Obi-Wan never told Luke that love and passion lead to the dark side, but can someone still explain to me how Luke could have gotten married, being the GRAND MASTER? Did it not dawn on him that (as far as I know) none of the Jedi in the past managed to fall in love, stay in love and not turn to the dark side? (One seemingly obvious example to him would have been his father.)

The only Jedi I can think of before Luke's time that loved and didn't turn to the dark side was Kento Marek, and he became a Grey Jedi as far as I know, and Obi-Wan, though he never pursued his love and stayed fully committed to the Jedi.

So, can anyone shed some insight on this?
Well for starters, what Luke pulled is called "pulling a Bindo". Second, Luke was leading his jedi order in a new direction, and I think one way of showing that was by marrying Mara. Thirdly Ki-Adi-Mundi was married, just to let you know...
"Those who know me by reputation say I am a creature of the cold darkness, a monster if you will. Now you too shall fear me." - Darth Crios, lord of icy wrath

KorinHyvek's Avatar


KorinHyvek
04.07.2012 , 06:19 PM | #12
Also, in case you've forgotten, Obi-wan told look that his feelings (as a brother, you pervert ) for Leia, "did him credit." Basically, by the time of the original trilogy, Yoda and Obi-wan had had a lot of time to sit around and think about what went wrong, and realized that caring about people didn't actually lead to the dark side (The Revenge of the Sith novelization actually talks about how Yoda began to realize just how much the Jedi had screwed up while he was dueling Palpatine). If anything, it's more of a selfish desire that leads to the dark side, a possessiveness and refusal to accept things.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
04.07.2012 , 06:30 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by KorinHyvek View Post
Also, in case you've forgotten, Obi-wan told look that his feelings (as a brother, you pervert ) for Leia, "did him credit." Basically, by the time of the original trilogy, Yoda and Obi-wan had had a lot of time to sit around and think about what went wrong, and realized that caring about people didn't actually lead to the dark side (The Revenge of the Sith novelization actually talks about how Yoda began to realize just how much the Jedi had screwed up while he was dueling Palpatine). If anything, it's more of a selfish desire that leads to the dark side, a possessiveness and refusal to accept things.
Hey now. He didn't KNOW she was his sister when she slipped him some tongue on Hoth. He just enjoyed the moment and went to his bunk later. And by the time he figured it out 2 years later, he'd pretty much gotten over it. Although, the looks on Mark Hamill's face during that scene on Dagobah were priceless!

Not to mention ol' George Lucas sitting back laughing his *** off at the collective "EWWWWWW" from pretty much everyone who watched that scene and remembered the kiss on Hoth.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

westraz's Avatar


westraz
04.08.2012 , 01:04 AM | #14
before Luke and Mara Jade got married with in he's odder Jedi where getting married left and right one set had 5 kids even 5!!!!!!!! so the rule was all ready set
I have bad spelling do to my being learning disabled , the is just so I do not get asked "why are you spelling so bad?" and I don't wont to have to get asked 100 times, and is in NO way meant to hurt any one feelings after all.. IT is about me!

Toonimator's Avatar


Toonimator
04.09.2012 , 11:42 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Actually, there were no "rules" to break at that time, since the Jedi Order was still non-existent after the prequels. Also, as pointed out by a previous poster here, Obi-Wan and Yoda never told Luke about the "No marriage or nookie" rules, so that is in keeping with continuity.
Also, when Luke got married it was BEFORE the Prequels. In the '90s EU, with the old Jedi and Clone Wars and basically everything from the eventual prequel-era was off-limits, the in-universe explanation for Luke's 'ignorance' of rules that hadn't even been invented yet was that Palpatine had buried or destroyed as much evidence & history of the Jedi Order as he could. So Luke basically was making it up as he went along, finding the occasional holocron or file about them, learning what he could from survivors like Kam Solusar, etc.

But, ultimately, the Prequel rules don't apply. It took decades to change their minds about much of it, but Yoda & Obi-Wan realized they did a lot of things wrong; it was hard to change their minds about EVERYTHING (like the notion that you can be saved from the dark side after you've fallen, but their warnings weren't so much against Luke trying to turn Vader back as warnings so Luke wouldn't fall, himself!), but they didn't feel the need to drive home the attachment/relationship teachings, or the whole 'there is NO emotion' that so many people here latch onto... especially since they were mostly just prepping Luke as a weapon against the Sith.

Yoda knew emotion was okay. Probably most Jedi in the PT did, it's just fan interpretation that emotion was forbidden because the Code says "no emotion". As Yoda's reaction to seeing Padme alive at the start of AOTC and his teachings to Luke in ESB indicate, it's not emotion that's bad, it's acting out of emotion with the Force. The Force is best used when calm, at peace, etc... and emotions, against the Sith, could be used against the Jedi. That's why Ben told Luke to bury his feelings, though he didn't condemn him for having them.

Tuscad's Avatar


Tuscad
04.09.2012 , 11:47 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthKaratus View Post
I understand that Yoda or Obi-Wan never told Luke that love and passion lead to the dark side, but can someone still explain to me how Luke could have gotten married, being the GRAND MASTER? Did it not dawn on him that (as far as I know) none of the Jedi in the past managed to fall in love, stay in love and not turn to the dark side? (One seemingly obvious example to him would have been his father.)

The only Jedi I can think of before Luke's time that loved and didn't turn to the dark side was Kento Marek, and he became a Grey Jedi as far as I know, and Obi-Wan, though he never pursued his love and stayed fully committed to the Jedi.

So, can anyone shed some insight on this?
Jedi population really low. Time for the Jedi to reproduce, by reproducing this made strong force sensitive blood lines.
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Chaac's Avatar


Chaac
04.09.2012 , 04:49 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
Luke was not so strict and allowed his Jedi to have relationships. It has proved successful so far.


Although I agree with everything you said, just wanted to point out that allowing them to marry and produce offspring has had it's downsides. Examples: Darth Cadeus and his fall to the darkside, Valin Horn and Jysella Horn being effected by Abeloth and causing their father to become pretty useless (understandable of course but demonstrates his attachment to them effecting his duties as a Council member) Tahiri and her love for Anakin causing her all kinds of issues, Luke's inability to go after Cadeus because of it's potential to turn him to the darkside due to events of Sacrifice ect.

Like I said I agree with most of what you said but yeah there's been a few good examples of the problems attachment can cause Jedi in the EU.
Wedge: "I don't like this notion of dovin basal mines that pursue you."
Han: "Me, either. I'm going to draft a strongly worded letter to the Yuuzhan Vong high commander and insist he stop using them."

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
04.09.2012 , 07:19 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaac View Post
Although I agree with everything you said, just wanted to point out that allowing them to marry and produce offspring has had it's downsides. Examples: Darth Cadeus and his fall to the darkside, Valin Horn and Jysella Horn being effected by Abeloth and causing their father to become pretty useless (understandable of course but demonstrates his attachment to them effecting his duties as a Council member) Tahiri and her love for Anakin causing her all kinds of issues, Luke's inability to go after Cadeus because of it's potential to turn him to the darkside due to events of Sacrifice ect.

Like I said I agree with most of what you said but yeah there's been a few good examples of the problems attachment can cause Jedi in the EU.
Which is why everyone else was there to help pick up the slack for those who were adversely affected by those events. Luke's Jedi Order is more of an extended family than previous Orders were. They all look out for each other as much as possible, and they pick up the slack whenever they can. There seems to be a loyalty there that wasn't there in the Prequel Order, or the Old Republic eras in KotOR and TOR.
. OPOD
The New Jedi Code: "Keep Calm & Carry a Lightsaber"

BLaCKie_MoRGaN's Avatar


BLaCKie_MoRGaN
04.10.2012 , 06:24 AM | #19
Throughout the history of the jedi order the "no marriage rule" went away, to sustain a reasonable number of force-aware peeps, if that number was high they enforced that rule, if the number was low they overlooked it.

xwingrlj's Avatar


xwingrlj
04.10.2012 , 07:10 AM | #20
In the old Order, when a Jedi in a relationship fell to the Dark Side, in most cases it wasn't because that loved one died, it was because they had already started down that path long before. Keeping it a secret to avoid the Masters finding out, telling all the lies and stories, etc. Deciet is the way of the Sith and the Dark Side, so its no wonder that a Jedi would easily fall to the Dark Side after getting into a relationship.

That being said, there were some, as previously mentioned that did it and succeeded without sucumbing. Corran Horn's father was a Jedi and died without falling to the Dark Side,. Just had to throw that example out there along with other examples already given.

Luke saw that you couldn't control the way you felt about someone, so rather than force a Jedi to conceal those feelings, he chose to allow it, so that it would be open, and then those Jedi who did have issues would have the support of all Jedi, and not have to suffer their pain on their own. A much wiser path in my opinion.