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Stealing aggro from tank = leet dps?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Stealing aggro from tank = leet dps?

Qonor's Avatar


Qonor
04.07.2012 , 02:08 PM | #1
As my gear has gotten better, on some single-target boss fights, while with various different tanks (assassins, powertechs, and juggernauts), I sometimes steal aggro from tanks midway through the fight. I'm not talking about fights with aggro drops or weird mechanics.

In WoW this was a sign of 1) a very high damage character as compared to the tank or 2) a tank with poor threat.

What do you guys think? Is it OK to use this as a measure that my damage is pretty good? I'm trying to find some meaningful ways of gauging my personal damage since I've played tanks and healers in prior MMOs, so it's pretty cool to try something new. Thanks.
Marqus Deception Assassin
Maelstrom Empire Guild
Jedi Covenant PvE East Server

dnoisette's Avatar


dnoisette
04.07.2012 , 02:10 PM | #2
Playing both tanks and dps roles in this game I'd say it's most likely about the amount of threat generated by the tank that is too low.
There's something very wrong with the team in charge of designing armors in this game...
Support LIGHT ARMOR PANTS, HOODED UP ROBES for Marauders and decent ENDGAME GEAR.

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Qonor's Avatar


Qonor
04.07.2012 , 02:11 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by dnoisette View Post
Playing both tanks and dps roles in this game I'd say it's most likely about the amount of threat generated.
Interesting. So generally speaking, a tank should never lose aggro on a tank and spank single-target encounter? Even if the dps class pumps out a lot of damage?
Marqus Deception Assassin
Maelstrom Empire Guild
Jedi Covenant PvE East Server

VonFinklestein's Avatar


VonFinklestein
04.07.2012 , 02:24 PM | #4
Not necessarily; some enemies have threat dumps.

Haters gunna' hate

dnoisette's Avatar


dnoisette
04.07.2012 , 02:27 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Qonor View Post
Interesting. So generally speaking, a tank should never lose aggro on a tank and spank single-target encounter? Even if the dps class pumps out a lot of damage?
Well I'm not saying this shouldn't happen. Alright, I'm gonna go for the long story part.

I have both an Assassin and a Juggernaut at the moment that are both tanks with dps gear for PvP and tank gear for PvE. I have never lost aggro to anyone with my Assassin. If you play clever and use your brain to rotate abilities effectively then there's no reason why any DPS should be able to pull aggro from you. Might be a learn to play issue but I find it to be a completely different story with my Juggernaut. I have a feeling that it does miss a lot on threat generation. In a situation when I'm running a flashpoint with two DPS and a healer, I have to be very careful at handling large groups of mobs. This has to do with a poor AoE threat generation that is specific to the Juggernaut/Guardian. In order to tank effectively and keep aggro on multiple targets I have to switch them regularly. On a single target however, there's no problem.

Two possible alternatives:

1) The DPS I have played with over the last few months weren't that skilled OR
2) An effective tank should never be loosing aggro to anyone (at least in a single target encounter)

EDIT:

Quote:
Not necessarily; some enemies have threat dumps.
Indeed but I'm talking generally not considering specific cases.
There's something very wrong with the team in charge of designing armors in this game...
Support LIGHT ARMOR PANTS, HOODED UP ROBES for Marauders and decent ENDGAME GEAR.

There is no good and evil, there is only power...and those too weak to seek it.

Qonor's Avatar


Qonor
04.07.2012 , 04:08 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Qonor View Post
I'm not talking about fights with aggro drops or weird mechanics.
Quote: Originally Posted by VonFinklestein View Post
Not necessarily; some enemies have threat dumps.
Why even post?


Quote: Originally Posted by dnoisette View Post
Well I'm not saying this shouldn't happen. Alright, I'm gonna go for the long story part.

I have both an Assassin and a Juggernaut at the moment that are both tanks with dps gear for PvP and tank gear for PvE. I have never lost aggro to anyone with my Assassin. If you play clever and use your brain to rotate abilities effectively then there's no reason why any DPS should be able to pull aggro from you. Might be a learn to play issue but I find it to be a completely different story with my Juggernaut. I have a feeling that it does miss a lot on threat generation. In a situation when I'm running a flashpoint with two DPS and a healer, I have to be very careful at handling large groups of mobs. This has to do with a poor AoE threat generation that is specific to the Juggernaut/Guardian. In order to tank effectively and keep aggro on multiple targets I have to switch them regularly. On a single target however, there's no problem.

Two possible alternatives:

1) The DPS I have played with over the last few months weren't that skilled OR
2) An effective tank should never be loosing aggro to anyone (at least in a single target encounter)

EDIT:



Indeed but I'm talking generally not considering specific cases.
Interesting. Although as I mentioned in my original post, I do not at all care about multi-target threat. This is about single-target threat on tank and spank fights. So even high dps shouldn't pull? Interesting.
Marqus Deception Assassin
Maelstrom Empire Guild
Jedi Covenant PvE East Server

VonFinklestein's Avatar


VonFinklestein
04.07.2012 , 04:37 PM | #7
Because I didn't read.


+1

Haters gunna' hate

ACLucius's Avatar


ACLucius
04.08.2012 , 12:52 PM | #8
Your damage is pretty good if you are able to beat the enrage timers. That is what you should measure yourself by. My two friends and I (they are a tank and healer) are able to do hard modes with just the three of us and a companion. I know my DPS is good because the companion is not geared out much and we can beat the enrages. However, I know that I am a good DPS because I am able to maximize my damage without stealing threat.

Just because you are stealing aggro doesn't mean you are a good DPS or that the tank is poor at keeping his/her threat up. It just means you exceeded your threat and are not using your threat dumps as much as you should. Being a good DPS and having high DPS do not mean the same thing.
"So far, this game quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, has feathers like a duck but we're told it has a pair of antlers that we have yet to be shown. By all logic, its more likely a duck with a funny hat than a deer." -Omega

ViperI's Avatar


ViperI
04.08.2012 , 12:59 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Qonor View Post
As my gear has gotten better, on some single-target boss fights, while with various different tanks (assassins, powertechs, and juggernauts), I sometimes steal aggro from tanks midway through the fight. I'm not talking about fights with aggro drops or weird mechanics.

In WoW this was a sign of 1) a very high damage character as compared to the tank or 2) a tank with poor threat.

What do you guys think? Is it OK to use this as a measure that my damage is pretty good? I'm trying to find some meaningful ways of gauging my personal damage since I've played tanks and healers in prior MMOs, so it's pretty cool to try something new. Thanks.
If you're taking agro during an ops encounter, you're doing it wrong (assuming, of course, that your tank isn't a derp-de-derp). Several DPS classes have a threat reducing ability, it should be used on cooldown, no exceptions. If you don't have one, you have to watch what you're doing and not over-agro. This is a skill that I have noticed many DPS players either failed to learn or have forgotten over their time playing MMOs. DPS players need to pace themselves, it's a balancing act and it adds to the challenge of the game when tanks and DPS have to work together to manage threat.

If you want to pull agro and flex your epeen, go for it, but I don't need a threat meter to tell you how much dps you do while dead.
Viper 1
Frozen In Carbonite

Ibiza-Vin's Avatar


Ibiza-Vin
04.08.2012 , 01:50 PM | #10
Speaking as a tank, it's almost impossible to lose aggro during a tank and spank fight after the first ~30 seconds due to how taunt works.

If you pulled, you must have gotten a big series of crits in the initial stages of the fight, or your tank is using an ineffectual rotation.

If you accurately want to check your DPS, you have to wait for 1.2 and combat log data.
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