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Why is there a DS/LS system at all?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Why is there a DS/LS system at all?

Phaedrynn's Avatar


Phaedrynn
04.05.2012 , 02:53 PM | #1
It would seem to me that a LS Sith is a Jedi, and a DS Jedi is a Sith (don't even get me started on non-force users having LS/DS ratings).

LS/DS should NOT be a separate system from faction. It should determine faction. If I play as a dual light saber wielding ****** and my DS/LS is decidedly on the "Dark" side, I am Imperial/Sith. If, on the other hand, it is LS I am Republic/Jedi. How can Bioware possibly justify a Sith Warrior that is Light 5 and running around with "The Pure" title on?
Quote: Originally Posted by Cerion View Post
Well look at the bright side...if you quit SWTOR, you can spend time brushing up on spelling and punctuation.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
04.05.2012 , 03:10 PM | #2
So you can unlock different Relics as you go. That's my best guess, anyhow.

Without a faction change, Dark Jedi in particular make no sense. LS Sith can still be loyal to the Empire, though. A patriot is not necessarily evil.

Honestly, the only Republic toon that could make it as evil (or dark grey) is the Smuggler, since he's pretty much a freelancer anyhow.

Imo, the Trooper and Jedi would defect. They would see either more power in service to the Empire for Jedi. Or wealth and the freedom to accomplish his missions with a maximum of bloodshed and cruelty for Trooper.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Mechavomit's Avatar


Mechavomit
04.05.2012 , 03:11 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Phaedrynn View Post
It would seem to me that a LS Sith is a Jedi, and a DS Jedi is a Sith
Ohh, how are you wrong.. how wrong you are...
A LS Sith is NEVER = Jedi. Ever. Same goes for DS Jedi.

Also, would you really say that every single imperial is automatically evil and DS?

CJ_SAX_MAN's Avatar


CJ_SAX_MAN
04.05.2012 , 03:17 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Phaedrynn View Post
It would seem to me that a LS Sith is a Jedi, and a DS Jedi is a Sith (don't even get me started on non-force users having LS/DS ratings).

LS/DS should NOT be a separate system from faction. It should determine faction. If I play as a dual light saber wielding ****** and my DS/LS is decidedly on the "Dark" side, I am Imperial/Sith. If, on the other hand, it is LS I am Republic/Jedi. How can Bioware possibly justify a Sith Warrior that is Light 5 and running around with "The Pure" title on?
Sith Empire and Republic aren't based on light side darkside, they are two separate political factions at war with one another. Sith is simply a title given to Imperial force users who get through their academy. The Jedi Order are a separate order that is allied with the republic. Therefore most force users on the Republic side are Jedi.

There are Jedi that go evil, fall victim to their emotion, anger whatever, and Sith that choose to go against their teaching of evil, domination, or power.

I don't know about the pure thing, but I know on one of my warrior quests:

Spoiler


And honestly, I think in terms of sheer willpower, the Lightside sith may very well be the strongest of them all. While under that, a Dark Sith, and Light Jedi are about even, and a dark Jedi seems like that would be the weakest.

The light sith is someone who has gone against all odds to remain good, despite the influence of everything around them. They even hope to one day fix the empire (and as such, though they are lightside, yet still loyal to the Empire).

The darkside sith, is someone who effectively uses emotion and passion and power to make their self incredibly strong, while the lightside Jedi (a true one, not most of the spoiled brat Jedi I run into as enemies) is a defender of light and Justice, though I do believe some of the teachings of the Jedi order are flawed, as my thoughts on it are something like the things Jolee Bindo explains. supposedly Luke Skywalker's new Jedi order was supposed to be the true fully light order, and they had many changes, love and marriage was fully allowed... etc..

Though the darkside Jedi however.... seems to be a kid who didn't get his way and gets all butthurt and angry about it and decides to hurt everything. Basically it is someone who unlike the Dark Sith, who truly harnesses the power of their emotion, passions, whatever, the dark Jedi has simply fallen victim to their anger and emotion and therefore weakened by it.

Though for example, according to my interpretation of those, Anakin seemed more like simply a fallen jedi then a true sith lord.

I do wonder about the Jedi of this era though, as a sith warrior, I rarely run into honorable ones, usually a bunch of overzealous war birds, or arrogant spoiled *****s, or some psyco that is as evil as I am. Never see anyone that has that true hero aura about them like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and Yoda and Mace Windu. Of course the Jedi order of their era doesn't seem like as much of a joke as the Old Republic one seems like.

Spoiler


Of course i get so sick of the line "YOU CAN'T KILL ME BECAUSE I AM A JEDI" "I AM A JEDI MASTER, YOU STAND NO CHANCE AGAINST ME" "YOU WILL NOT PASS BECAUSE I AM JEDI!!!" They all say it so much....Seriously?

at least Qui-gon had it right

Young Anakin: "No one can kill a Jedi!"

Qui-Gon: "I wish that were true"




EDIT and like the previous poster pointed out. Is some family living on an Imperial World who are official citizens of the Empire, but simply live out their lives working and such, are they evil?

Are the soldiers of the Republic that get so corrupted from war they get an intense bloodthirst and want to kill every Imperial that they see, are they light side?
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septembersphinx's Avatar


septembersphinx
04.05.2012 , 03:21 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Or wealth and the freedom to accomplish his missions with a maximum of bloodshed and cruelty for Trooper.
Yes, because the sith hierarchy and having to pay constant lip service to the emperor/any darth who asks it of you is clearly so much more appealing than exploiting the corruption that will inevitably exist in a political body as large and varied as the Republic.

There are plenty of very realistic examples of "dark" people on the republic side. In fact, some of the people that do defect to the empire do so because of the corruption and lack of integrity they see as being inherent to the structure of the republic.

CJ_SAX_MAN's Avatar


CJ_SAX_MAN
04.05.2012 , 03:30 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by septembersphinx View Post
Yes, because the sith hierarchy and having to pay constant lip service to the emperor/any darth who asks it of you is clearly so much more appealing than exploiting the corruption that will inevitably exist in a political body as large and varied as the Republic.

There are plenty of very realistic examples of "dark" people on the republic side. In fact, some of the people that do defect to the empire do so because of the corruption and lack of integrity they see as being inherent to the structure of the republic.
all very valid
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Fredcat's Avatar


Fredcat
04.05.2012 , 03:37 PM | #7
Why is it included in the game? Because it's a proven great story building system and it's probably what BioWare games are best known for.

Basically you are over simplifying it. You view The Republic/Jedi as "good" and The Empire/Sith as "evil". Sith don't view themselves as evil. They view their philosophy as strong and correct, and the Jedi philosophy as weak and incorrect.

As far as a dark side Jedi, they would be fallen Jedi, not Sith. They would still be Republic. Maybe their animations should change to the DS ones I'll give you that. A character like Vader became Empire/Sith because he defected to that side, which we cant do in this game now. A LS Empire/Sith player is perfectly acceptable, it just means he's honorable and not a psycho killer.

And the non force users, it's no different then Paragon vs Renegade in Mass Effect. It's just this is Star Wars so they use LS/DS.

LS/DS should definitely NOT be tied to faction, but I would like to see a defection option and animation change added in the future.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
04.05.2012 , 03:43 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by septembersphinx View Post
Yes, because the sith hierarchy and having to pay constant lip service to the emperor/any darth who asks it of you is clearly so much more appealing than exploiting the corruption that will inevitably exist in a political body as large and varied as the Republic.

There are plenty of very realistic examples of "dark" people on the republic side. In fact, some of the people that do defect to the empire do so because of the corruption and lack of integrity they see as being inherent to the structure of the republic.
I was actually very specific on the Freedom part. "The freedom to accomplish the mission with a maximum of bloodshed and cruelty." Considering that Imperial High Command values such things, it would be awesome for a DS Trooper. Also, Bounty Hunters in general, with a few exceptions, work exclusively for the Empire. Why? Because the Empire pays better.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

septembersphinx's Avatar


septembersphinx
04.05.2012 , 04:13 PM | #9
I am not saying that dark troopers would never defect to the Empire for the reasons you described.

I am, however, arguing against the idea that you seem to be promoting that it is impossible for an immoral trooper to exist in the republic, or that any who do are idiots. There are plenty of reasons to be loyal to the republic but not espouse light side ideals. There are plenty of ways to hate the empire and make choices that are rabidly republic partisan to a dark side extreme. You certainly meet plenty of military people over all the various planets with various degrees of integrity and loyalty.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
04.05.2012 , 04:20 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by CJ_SAX_MAN View Post
I do wonder about the Jedi of this era though, as a sith warrior, I rarely run into honorable ones, usually a bunch of overzealous war birds, or arrogant spoiled *****s, or some psyco that is as evil as I am. Never see anyone that has that true hero aura about them like Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan and Yoda and Mace Windu. Of course the Jedi order of their era doesn't seem like as much of a joke as the Old Republic one seems like.

Spoiler


Of course i get so sick of the line "YOU CAN'T KILL ME BECAUSE I AM A JEDI" "I AM A JEDI MASTER, YOU STAND NO CHANCE AGAINST ME" "YOU WILL NOT PASS BECAUSE I AM JEDI!!!" They all say it so much....Seriously?
There is a very simple explanation for that: The Story needs bosses. So the Jedi have to fight, even if the Warrior doesn't want to. It's a little sad that this creates the imige of the Jedi many Empire players end up with.

When you play a Jedi class, you see that there is discussion about this among the Jedi. Some are really the "all Sith have to be destroyed"-type (council member: Master Kaeden), others are the "all Sith can be redeemed"-type (council member: Master Syo). The council as a whole and also Master Satele tend to agree with the latter.
You could of course say that the more militant are more likly to fight at the front line, so they are those the empire encounters the most.

For Sith Warrior chapter 1

Spoiler
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall