Dungeon Finder Needed Badly

How will a cross-server dungeon finder help people on low population servers do heroic missions (they aren't instanced after all)?

That question is the single best counter-argument to cross-server dungeon finders as a mechanism to help people on low population servers. It can't help them do anything but flashpoints and flashpoints, while nice, actually don't do as nice a job as heroics do for giving you loot (at least while levelling up). A flashpoint will give you a chance at getting loot from 3-5 bosses. That loot may or may not be for your class and you may or may not face competition for getting it. A heroic will give you a guaranteed reward of a nice blue or orange or, failing that, commendations. Furthermore the heroic can be repeated daily and a good heroic group can become a good FP group.

All of this is entirely beside the point of the effect a cross-server LFG tool has on collective player behavior. I've seen in it WoW and I've seen it in Rift. The adventure zones empty out as people cluster in the capitol cities and wait for their dungeon pop. Minus class quests you'd never see anyone on any of the worlds after a while - so forget world pvp or doing heroics. People complain this game is too solitary already, trust me when I say that based on what I saw in the two other games that have implemented such a tool that it can get much, much worse.

Well for starters, people are asking for a Group Finder for doing Flashpoints. So if the best counter-argument is that it won't help them do something they're not asking for it for...then you're admitting there is no argument against it.

People cluster in the Fleet currently trying to get groups or waiting for PVP queues to pop, so that argument falls flat.

From what I've heard there barely is any world pvp as it is anyway. Also people will still do heroics because whilst they're levelling they'll say "Anyone for this Heroic quest?", much like happens in those other games currently.

And that is your problem, you're too busy thinking about those other games instead of thinking about how SWTOR could do their own version of it.

Its an argument against the notion that a cross-server LFG tool is going to be a substantive help for low population realms - it won't be. It will help you get a small subsection of groups going on but won't help for anything that isn't 100% instanced .
Once again, people are asking for a Group Finder for Flashpoints, so stating it won't help with Heroics is not a valid argument against it.



I thought the argument in favor of a XLFG tool was that there was no one on the Fleet to form groups for Flashpoints. You're saying here there are people already clustered on the Fleet... so how are you having a problem finding Flashpoints?
I'm really concerned as to why you're asking this question. I'll try to explain it anyway.
You said that with a XLFG tool people will just sit in the fleet waiting for groups. I said that's what they do anyway. We're saying at least with a Group Finder tool they can queue up and then go off to different planets and do other things. The reason they're having problem getting groups is because there's not enough people of that level range around for getting a Flashpoint, or who are on the Fleet looking for that HM. Get it?


Ask the pvp servers about that - just rest assured that whatever quantity of world pvp there is now there won't be any after a XLFG tool goes live. Just ask the folks on pvp servers in WoW about that.
I would, but I'm sort of failing to see how a Flashpoint Finder will affect PVP since they're two seperate parts of the game?


Every version of it so far has produced identical results. There's absolutely no reason to expect SWTOR would be any different. It isn't the tool, it is the nature of humans - we want the most reward for the least work and risk. Standing around a capitol city waiting for a FP pop turns out to be much better risk/reward than actually going out and levelling in the two games that currently have it.

The very reason people are asking for it is the reason it will have the deleterious effects we've already seen in other games. A group finder takes all the work out of finding a group - just queue and wait. There's no reason to ever leave the capitol because right there in the Fleet you already have everything you need - trainers for everything, GTN, vendors, flashpoint quest givers, etc. The only reason people would leave would be for class quests...

And with class quests I can predict that shortly after XLFG lands that it will also include "queue for class quests" with people clamoring for an option that lets a class quest run count as a completion for everybody of that class who has the quest.

Given the two existing games with XLFG tools both have followed the same pattern of player behavior after the tool was implemented I would submit the burden of proof that SWTOR will be the exception is on the people claiming SWTOR will be the exception. To this end an admission that these effects existed in other games from the pro-XLFG tool would go a long way in establishing some kind of credibility for the argument.

Once again, you're blaming the tool for people. You're saying everyone else in the game is nasty and will steal your loot.

Your argument about queue for class quests is, I'm sorry, completely unreal. You're now grasping at straws and exaggerating everything to beyond intelligence. Which is more evidence that you really don't have any actual argument.

You can not care all you want, but the concerns are valid.
The presence of a cross server dungeon finder is the difference between an online multiplayer co op game and an mmorpg.

Thankfully, the developers said the incoming FP finder will be server wide only.

You can not care all you want, but the concerns are valid.
The presence of a cross server dungeon finder is the difference between an online multiplayer co op game and an mmorpg.

Thankfully, the developers said the incoming FP finder will be server wide only.

Once again, people are asking for a Group Finder for Flashpoints, so stating it won't help with Heroics is not a valid argument against it.

I'm really concerned as to why you're asking this question. I'll try to explain it anyway.
You said that with a XLFG tool people will just sit in the fleet waiting for groups. I said that's what they do anyway. We're saying at least with a Group Finder tool they can queue up and then go off to different planets and do other things. The reason they're having problem getting groups is because there's not enough people of that level range around for getting a Flashpoint, or who are on the Fleet looking for that HM. Get it?

Once again, you're blaming the tool for people. You're saying everyone else in the game is nasty and will steal your loot.

Your argument about queue for class quests is, I'm sorry, completely unreal. You're now grasping at straws and exaggerating everything to beyond intelligence. Which is more evidence that you really don't have any actual argument.

But Flashpoints aren't the be-all and end-all of grouping. While a LFG tool will help for non-instanced content a cross-server Group Finder won't because it can't. For that reason a cross-server tool is actively inferior as an option on those grounds alone.

You'll excuse me as I'm getting a headache from you. Look at the name of this thread. DUNGEON FINDER NEEDED BADLY therefore we are not discussing Heroic quests. Ok? Has that sunk in yet?

Furthermore we have two games worth of precedent to show that if such a tool is implemented that the adventure zones will empty out which would mean that the very tool that strives to make a small subsection of group content (flashpoints) more readily available will have the effect of making it harder to find level-appropriate groups for heroics.
Once again...CURRENTLY PEOPLE HAVE TO SIT IN THE ONE PLACE ASKING FOR GROUPS. So the Group Finder tool does not cause this. People aren't out in the "adventure zones" because they have nothing to do there, what do you want them to be doing, swimming in the lakes and playing cricket?!

Remember that Blizzard had to nerf all their non-instanced "elite" quests to be non-elite soloable quests because no one was able to get them done.

They removed the 'heroic quests'. That has nothing to do with a Group Finder and thus is illogical to this argument. LET IT GO ABOUT THE HEROIC QUESTS, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DUNGEON FINDER.


Ok, let me try it this way...

If there are not enough people to group with anywhere then the solution is not a cross-server tool. The solution is server mergers and server transfers either provided by Bioware or accomplished (via rerolling) by the players. A cross-server tool will not help someone on a low-pop server do anything but Flashpoints and would have the effect (again based on the precedent we've seen in WoW and Rift) of making it harder for everyone (including on servers with healthy populations) do get Heroics done.

If there are enough people to group with, but not enough on the Fleet, the solution would be to use a single-server LFG tool (that could work for everything including class quests, heroic quests, and flashpoints) - anything else wouldn't be needed. In the mean time, until it is added to the game, the immediate solution is to stop sitting on the Fleet and spamming LFG... try advertising for a group in the adventure zones.

Put another way if you are level 25ish and want to run Mandalorian Raiders and sitting on the Fleet is getting you nowhere... go to Tatooine and try advertising there for a group. You can do it while questing or if you find yourself in a good heroic group suggest travelling up to the Fleet and running the Flashpoint.



Not worried about loot at all. Specialized "need before greed" code can solve most of those problems here like it did in WoW and Rift. Sure people are going to be jerks about loot without that kind of code though - we saw that in WoW in spades before Blizz fixed it.



First time my Inquisitor got to the quest at the end of chapter 1 it completely kicked my butt. I ended up trying it a couple times before I beat it. I'm not the only one who's had problems beating a class quest with a BBG (big bad guy) and needed to call in help. I see people asking in general sometimes and other times I've had guildies ask. Point being that if there is a difficult quest that is completely instanced that people will want to be able to use the tool to find help to beat it. If they want the tool to do that they'll not want to have to run it multiple times in case the group they find for it isn't one where they are the "leader"

You know what, I'm done trying to explain things to you. I don't know if you're refusing or just completely incapable of understanding, but it's like trying to teach a brick wall how to be an aeroplane.