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DPS vs Tank/Healer survivability

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
DPS vs Tank/Healer survivability

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
04.04.2012 , 01:34 PM | #11
Since it seems people still don't get it, ship droid is a healer. He comes without gear so you need to find a cybertech or be one, but he does the job pretty much as well as the 'real' healer you get later (real healer gets a CC and has some damage moves).

Also having levelled a gunslinger and now doing a sniper, you're absolutely wrong. It's far easier to level those classes than some of the others (sith warriors for example).

Finally, I've never found the healer companions necessary to level at all. I find I go WAY faster doing double dps. You just have to play smarter.

Veriu's Avatar


Veriu
04.04.2012 , 05:55 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Carambole View Post
So the next question would be. Why are we still rollin` with tanks that do slightly "less" dps. Although I have no hard evidence of this being the case in swtor.
Because otherwise nobody would ever bring DPS to anything?

If tanks did equal DPS to tanks, then why would you bring DPS to a raid?? Just bring 6 Tanks & 2 healers...or maybe just 8 tanks.

Quote: Originally Posted by Carambole View Post
See, a person that says that has levelled a fury warrior in wow from scratch and has had headaches for atleast a year. He raids and get the best gear and his rage regeneration finally levels out. Oh lordi how he forgets those headaches when he's chugging down a smoothie seeing the crits fly by
It took you a year to get good gear????

More importantly, what is the point of your "awesome" story?

Quote: Originally Posted by Carambole View Post
Conclusion. There is a disparity. I'll be more specific. Jedi Shadow dps and Gunslinger are the 2 weakest roles in the game at the moment. For levelling purposes only. I haven't run a damage meter in a raid yet. Someone correct me with evidence.
hmm..I've leveled a Jedi Shadow & a sniper...never had an issue.

Evidence of what? Your opinion is that two AC's are harder to solo with...difficulty can be subjective...the only type of evidence that measures something that is subjective, is a poll. If you want to find out what classes people think are hardest to level as, make one.

As for in raids, according to sim data: Gunslinger/sniper is in the highest tier (with marauders & mercs). Assassins are in second tier (with Sorcs).
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Carambole's Avatar


Carambole
04.05.2012 , 02:29 PM | #13
Quote:
Finally, I've never found the healer companions necessary to level at all. I find I go WAY faster doing double dps. You just have to play smarter.
Be honest here. We are a gamer community and we game alot. We cannot always be 100% Pro that's when we need to rely on mechanics and other things.

Let me clarify. As a lvl 46 Consualr Shadow specced in the dps tree I can NOT take down a lvl 45 gundark elite with or without a healer companion and MAX Meds.

Let me further clarify. If one were to look at my gear I would say I’m decently kitted. Let me further clarify. I recently specced kinetic and yes I will be one shotted by this level 45 elite gundark who is to be defeated for a non - HM group quest.
1 simple word to Bioware, Politely I might add, stuff you for giving me this imaginary headache. Simple.

Also while you’re at it balance the classes, starting first with the pure dps classes. Also some new survivability skills for these classes wouldn’t be scoffed at. Also make med packs stronger. Also reduce idiotic NPC elite power in normal quests. Also …. Nvm.
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hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
04.05.2012 , 02:49 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Carambole View Post
Be honest here. We are a gamer community and we game alot. We cannot always be 100% Pro that's when we need to rely on mechanics and other things.

Let me clarify. As a lvl 46 Consualr Shadow specced in the dps tree I can NOT take down a lvl 45 gundark elite with or without a healer companion and MAX Meds.

Let me further clarify. If one were to look at my gear I would say I’m decently kitted. Let me further clarify. I recently specced kinetic and yes I will be one shotted by this level 45 elite gundark who is to be defeated for a non - HM group quest.
1 simple word to Bioware, Politely I might add, stuff you for giving me this imaginary headache. Simple.

Also while you’re at it balance the classes, starting first with the pure dps classes. Also some new survivability skills for these classes wouldn’t be scoffed at. Also make med packs stronger. Also reduce idiotic NPC elite power in normal quests. Also …. Nvm.
So your actual issue is with one mob you're having trouble with.

Thanks for clarifying. I'd suggest reporting it as a bug if everything you're saying above is true. You shouldn't be having this issue with this particular creature and while infiltration shadows are weaker as a whole than kinetic, they are fully capable of taking down an elite a level below them.

Toogeloo's Avatar


Toogeloo
04.06.2012 , 01:42 AM | #15
I will agree that there is a very large disparity with when classes get their companions.


Sith Warrior for example will have all it's companions by the end of Hoth, so around Level 40-42. Meanwhile, Sith Inquisitors don't get their last companion until after they finish Voss... so around level 48-50.

Take it another step. Warriors have 3 companions before they even hit level 20. Agents don't get their third until about level 30.

kuey's Avatar


kuey
04.06.2012 , 02:26 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Carambole View Post
As having tried out all 3 specs with variations I can say for certain that there is a disparity between being a pure DPS type character such as the gunsliger than for instance a consular kinetic "tank".

My question to Bioware is, what is the reason behind this? I thought we left the "make tanks/healers attractive to play" debate behind a few years ago.

Example: if you roll a gunsliger toon you won't get a healing companion until your early thirties. Explain how one is to survive other than someone posting "smart" saying get good gear OR equip your decent tank Bowdaar with the best stuff. Those do not impact on survivability for a PURE DPS CLASS. You still cop it.


/My 2 cents
Read that bit and laughed. Equipping Bowdaar and using strategy doesn't help survivability? Having better gear doesn't effect your survivability? You just turned your whole argument into a major "I died, game too hard" QQ.

Geared companion = more damage absorption capabilities = stays alive longer = less time before you get railed on = increased survivability (let's not forget that gearing a companion increases their dps output making the battles shorter).

Better gear = better damage output = shorter fights = increased survivability due to less damage taken due to decreased battle time.

Playing "smart" = using stuns/snares/mezzes/interrupts/positioning effectively to decrease enemies damage output = less damage sustained = better surviability.

I rolled a 50 GS and I'll say this honestly, I never used Guss. My main companion was Akaavi (Melee DPS) and whilst it was difficult at time, there was no solo fight that I couldn't do.

Got problems with specific fights? List em out and we can help you. Better off doing that than spewing nonsense like you did.

Upurss's Avatar


Upurss
04.06.2012 , 05:19 AM | #17
so I guess i'm the only one who thinks the healing companions are crap? lol

and honestly if people are complaining about the difficulty of pve in this game...ilol@them

Katahn's Avatar


Katahn
04.06.2012 , 10:56 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Carambole View Post
As having tried out all 3 specs with variations I can say for certain that there is a disparity between being a pure DPS type character such as the gunsliger than for instance a consular kinetic "tank".

My question to Bioware is, what is the reason behind this? I thought we left the "make tanks/healers attractive to play" debate behind a few years ago.

Example: if you roll a gunsliger toon you won't get a healing companion until your early thirties. Explain how one is to survive other than someone posting "smart" saying get good gear OR equip your decent tank Bowdaar with the best stuff. Those do not impact on survivability for a PURE DPS CLASS. You still cop it.


/My 2 cents
Judging roles by the order a specific class gets compnaions in is flawed. Sure a Consular gets a healer companion on Nar Shadda, but their mirror class doesn't get one until Hoth. Meanwhile Sith Warriors get a healing companion on Belsavis (equivilent to Republic Taris) while Guardians don't get one until quite a bit later.

Of course it has already been pointed out that everyone gets a healer in the form of the ship droid after finishing their respective capital worlds - all that's needed is to equip it.

What I have observed is that if there is an alleged difficulty in levelling as a DPS compared to levelling as a tank or healer that the number of DPS present in higher levels would be expected to be much lower and that instead of seeing "LF1M Tank" or "LF1M Healer" all we would be seeing is "LF1M DPS". Yet the opposite is true - most often it is "LF1M Healer" followed by "LF1M Tank" an in dead last (but still seen) is "LF1M DPS".

When I've played DPS I have noticed that (without healers) my DPS character will finish fights with about the same amount of health left over that my tanks would (again, without healers) but they would complete the fights signficantly faster.
Katahn
- Just an aging geek that remembers seeing Ep4 in the theater as a kid and knows that Han shot first!

Toogeloo's Avatar


Toogeloo
04.06.2012 , 08:29 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Katahn View Post
Sith Warriors get a healing companion on Belsavis (equivilent to Republic Taris).
Balmorra

Tenacity's Avatar


Tenacity
04.07.2012 , 02:32 AM | #20
In 1v1 pvp you'll always have a discrepancy, because it's designed (in most games) to function as a rock/paper/scissors balancing system.

Tanks kill DPS (usually because they're nigh-immune to damage and have semi-decent damage output of their own)

DPS kill Healers (by doing enough burst damage and using interrupts/stuns/cc to prevent the healer from healing)

Healers kill Tanks (by being able to easily outlast a tank's damage output via healing)

That's just how it is. The balance comes around when you get into team vs team pvp, and all three types of players are having to fight all three at varying times, and usually not in equal numbers.
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