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When can we expect to see a nerf of the Hybrid Sin/Shadow? + Proposed changes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
When can we expect to see a nerf of the Hybrid Sin/Shadow? + Proposed changes

AMKSED's Avatar


AMKSED
04.03.2012 , 06:21 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Neamhan View Post
So? Your sample size is still way to small to be statistically relevant, and being cherry picked means the sample is unusable anyway. Try using the combat log available on the test server to find out what the actual DPS of the various ACs are, then get back to us.



And yet he still managed over 17k protection. The fact that he did nearly 1 million damage in a single warzone without using guard is even more remarkable since it means he was getting less heals to keep him up. Either that or the healer was just standing back freecasting in which case guard would have been irrelevant anyway.

The point, for people who seem to have missed it, is that screenshots that show large amounts of damage are just trophies and useless for balancing classes. Let's see some of those parsed combat logs to see what's really going on.
17k protection is nothing lol. He threw TAUNTS out, not GUARDS. I can play my Focus Guardian and easily get 25-50k protection just from taunts.

Neamhan's Avatar


Neamhan
04.03.2012 , 06:33 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by AMKSED View Post
I'd expect a DPS spec'd Jugg to be able to DPS.
Maybe you should actually define how much damage is acceptable and how much isn't. All anyone ever says is "class so-and-so does 'too much' damage" without ever defining what 'too much' is.

Total damage screenshots are useless in this regard because variables like how much uptime on targets and how long the WZ lasts distorts the numbers. So you can use either straight-up DPS or just use a percentage. Is 2000 DPS too much? For who? A tank? DPS? A healer? Should a Tank do 10% less damage than DPS? 50% less? What about a healer? What are the magic numbers you think are acceptable?

Neamhan's Avatar


Neamhan
04.03.2012 , 06:41 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by AMKSED View Post
17k protection is nothing lol. He threw TAUNTS out, not GUARDS. I can play my Focus Guardian and easily get 25-50k protection just from taunts.
That's nice. What's your point? Are you saying taunts are now apparently overpowered too?

PS: I didn't say he used Guard. Please to read the post you reply to.

Darth_Acherus's Avatar


Darth_Acherus
04.03.2012 , 07:04 PM | #34
Bottom line is, it's people just complaining cause they lost in game.
Jung Ma - Nariell 50 Sentinel <Alpha Company>
Jung Ma - Alosa 50 Commando <Alpha Company> (Retired)

AMKSED's Avatar


AMKSED
04.03.2012 , 07:14 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Neamhan View Post
That's nice. What's your point? Are you saying taunts are now apparently overpowered too?

PS: I didn't say he used Guard. Please to read the post you reply to.
You made it seem like 17k was a lot....

Grimspire's Avatar


Grimspire
04.03.2012 , 07:15 PM | #36
The point is that being able to do DPS numbers as a Tank in Tank stance that can guard is imbalanced.

Edit: Hmm, my quote disappeared.

Neamhan's Avatar


Neamhan
04.03.2012 , 07:39 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Grimspire View Post
The point is that being able to do DPS numbers as a Tank in Tank stance that can guard is imbalanced.

Edit: Hmm, my quote disappeared.
Did you notice in the screenshot I linked the DPS Jugg did more damage than any of the shots in the other link? So since none of the nerfherders are willing to give an actual definition of what 'DPS numbers' or 'tank numbers' are, or what percentage of 'DPS numbers' a tank should do, all we can go by is that the very best Assassin tanks in DPS gear still can't match the damage of a Damage spec.

Grimspire's Avatar


Grimspire
04.03.2012 , 07:43 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Neamhan View Post
Did you notice in the screenshot I linked the DPS Jugg did more damage than any of the shots in the other link? So since none of the nerfherders are willing to give an actual definition of what 'DPS numbers' or 'tank numbers' are, or what percentage of 'DPS numbers' a tank should do, all we can go by is that the very best Assassin tanks in DPS gear still can't match the damage of a Damage spec.

Oh please. Your entire argument hinges on a single fluke screenshot.

Dozens of screenshots of what Tankasins are capable of have been shown. Furthermore, that Jugg did zilch for healing (which matters because that adds to the survivability of the Tankasin), way less protection for 200k more damage in a fluke match.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
04.03.2012 , 07:53 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Grimspire View Post
Oh please. Your entire argument hinges on a single fluke screenshot.

Dozens of screenshots of what Tankasins are capable of have been shown. Furthermore, that Jugg did zilch for healing (which matters because that adds to the survivability of the Tankasin), way less protection for 200k more damage in a fluke match.
I think her (or his) point is valid.

How much is too much? You're obviously taking your metrics from silly scoreboard screenshots that don't tell the whole story, so that's not a good measure. It's perfectly plausible to refute one baseless screenshot w/ another, since neither of them mean anything when it comes to class balance.

Are we talking about damage per second? Total damage done? Burst damage? High crits?

What is the criteria for saying someone is doing too much damage, other than some random screenshot of a tank being healbotted through an entire WZ while spamming AoEs?

Why does it matter how much healing the Tankasin did, when he's only healing HIMSELF? It adds to his survivability by design, since the Tankasin is less sturdy than the other two tanking classes w/out it.

Neamhan is asking a very simple question. What are you basing your judgment on when it comes to damage?

I don't see why it's so hard to answer, if you think they do "too much damage". You must have some sort of basis to be saying that, right?

Why do you keep dodging the question w/ vague statements like "DPS numbers" and "too much damage" w/out trying to clarify your position. It's hard to take anyone seriously who can't even provide the basis for their own argument.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
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Grimspire's Avatar


Grimspire
04.03.2012 , 07:54 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
I think her (or his) point is valid.

How much is too much? You're obviously taking your metrics from silly scoreboard screenshots that don't tell the whole story, so that's not a good measure. It's perfectly plausible to refute one baseless screenshot w/ another, since neither of them mean anything when it comes to class balance.

Are we talking about damage per second? Total damage done? Burst damage? High crits?

What is the criteria for saying someone is doing too much damage, other than some random screenshot of a tank being healbotted through an entire WZ while spamming AoEs?

Why does it matter how much healing the Tankasin did, when he's only healing HIMSELF? It adds to his survivability by design, since the Tankasin is less sturdy than the other two tanking classes w/out it.

Neamhan is asking a very simple question. What are you basing your judgment on when it comes to damage?

I don't see why it's so hard to answer, if you think they do "too much damage". You must have some sort of basis to be saying that, right?

Bioware will determine what is too much. All I have to do is bring it to their attention.