No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

I can see both sides. On one end, LFG tools tend to keep players inside 1 little area all the time. But being as there is shuttles to every Flashpoint, Ops, and a LFG for WZ's thats already the case mostly, i don't really see any problems with a LFG tool.


It's kind of a bummer for larger population servers like mine, where we tend to be a bit ahead due to the ease of finding groups to gear up. We'll end up queue'ing with less experienced and geared players. But i suppose it's selfish to argue a LFG tool under those circumstances.

Then don't use LFG? That way your better geared players won't be dragged down by lessers.

Hell given how easy it is to get orange gear and mods I'm not sure how players can be poorly geared to start with.

Being on a server like starstorm one (which bioware told us to go on during the crazy queues, this turned out to be a russian hotspot which makes finding groups hard due to communication problems. Then a mass exit from the server by english players has made this even worse in the poast month or so) you can hardly ever get a group. The game seems broke, as spending hours and hours to get a group, when there are a maximum of 50 people on the republic fleet at peak times.

I am all for a cross server LFG tool, although for servers where this is an issue, i can see why you would not want it.

That should be a mostly short term problem, right? I mean, once the lfg has been cross server for a while, the other servers won't really be behind in gear or experience.

lol, the master of cherry picking everyone.

A) No its not, even WoW allows you to group with with people cross-server aside from the xserver using realID friends.

B) The issue is getting a big enough pool of players to find groups in a reasonable amount of time, which xserver is NOT the only way. Not wanting to play with players of a different server just for the sake of it (which is unnecessary).

Yup, we all are. Everyone that is against it has the same exact excuses because we're equally "flawed" compared to you and the 5 others who've been keeping these threads alive. That was sarcasm btw, since it seems to go over your head.

Um, try again. No one, has done any formal research on the effects of the LFG tool. Its all personal experience. Thats the only proof there is on both sides. We say it brought the community down, you say it didnt. The ONLY logical argument you have ever made in favor of xserver is that it provides the most instant gratification, which no one has argued against.

Youre calling for burden of proof knowing there isnt any, while making another claim ("it doesnt effect community") which has no proof itself. Youre pretty much ignoring and dismissing the experiences of many players who've voiced against it by saying "nah uh" ... countering with your own (very outnumbered) unprovable experiences.

Furthermore, it is actually YOU making the claim. None of us here disagrees that the quality of the community went down (more frequent misbehavior, less general sense of community, etc) after the xserver LFG. Even some of those for the xserver agree. YOU are the one claiming its not the xserver LFG tools fault. If you insist on playing the "appeal to ignorance" and "burden of proof" card ... its actually on you.

1) WoW didnt have problems with groups until they made them all trivial and useless .. oh and they were YEARS old. Never did I have problems finding groups for current content on my server which is always medium in population (low off peak).

The same server LFG in WoW was HORRIBLE ... the interface sucked, the matching sucked, and no one used it! It got to the point where they brought back the Global LFG channel. SEE FOR YOURSELF Even so, Blizzard is known for pumping out "features" without thinking and/or ignoring the consequences (part of the reason some of us are here) and thats exactly what we're trying to avoid here. Luckily Bioware isnt as ignorant on those issues (see combat log parsers).

Also, dont talk as if xserver solved Rifts problems. While the queues did improve they didnt magically get fixed. I was still queuing for a good hour before getting groups there, even with xserver. Communication went down, behavior worsened, zero tolerance against fellow players, all the while the servers remained empty (main reason I left). If Xserver was such a godsend ... then why were servers merged anyway? It wasnt. Like TOR, Rift had trouble grouping from the very beginning which is a MUCH bigger problem.

2) Xserver for low pops is like becoming an alcoholic for depression. Instant gratification that just adds more problems in the long run. Unless the game suddenly becomes one where all you do is play FP's it does NOT solve any of the other problems of being in a low pop server.

3) Going to try this once more since last time you all seemed to prefer the in-fighting, ignoring each others comments or concerns.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...make-it-better < great thread we should be following the example of.

We're already getting same server LFG and hopefully some server merges to go with it for the lower population servers. IF BW decides to stay ignorant and by some off chance group queues are still unreasonable then perhaps we can suggest ways of implementing a decent xserver without turning this into the turd which is currently stinking up WoW.

And that's the biggest problem with you and your kind. You insert blatant lies into what seem like logical arguments and that makes it look like you actually have a point, which you don't.
Original LFG tool in WoW sucked, but Blizzard never brought back global LFG channel. Global LFG never returned to WoW. We had to use trade until we got the current LFG.
The question becomes on how often do you use blatant lies to back your argument up? I am willing to bet that very often.

Game needs a cross server lfg system. If you dont want this. Then dont use it. Form your own groups by sitting in fleet spamming.

Grouping with cross server realid friends is still cross server grouping...

Like I said, it's tautological: Cross server grouping is the only way I'll be able to group with people on other servers.

Sure it is. A single server cannot hold enough people to fix the situation; the problems that cross server grouping fix are still present even on the largest of servers. And given that I see cross server an end, not a means to an end: Ergo, cross server grouping is needed to actually fix what I want them to fix.

Glad to hear that we're on the same page.

Oh, I don't pay attention to sarcasm; I generally just take whatever you say as you said it without trying to do too much interpretation.

No, that's just speculation, and I'm pretty sure it's false speculation at that.

Certainly blizzard has done formal research on the effects; even though they haven't directly released the results of that research, we can see the indirect results of that research: they have continued to expand cross server with the lfr tool, they are expanding cross server in general significantly over the next expansion, and they are continuing to refine it's features (for example, the battletag system). Some of their more announcements are pretty direct at revealing their analysis, particularly in how they view LFR as a success.

Quite possibly other people have done formal research; I haven't looked into it much.

No, I'm assuming that if people are going to use that as the basis of their argument, then they actually have proof, especially since many of them claim to have proof.

If you don't have proof then it's not a valid basis for your argument, because the hypothesis of your statement is of indeterminate true/false value. At that point your argument boils down to "no, you shouldn't get it because I don't want you to get it" which isn't really a valid argument at all.

no, you're claiming that is a reason to not add a feature that people want... it's your claim, not mine.

Lots of people disagree with that, and even if you're correct: correlation is not causation (as well as Fallacy of mass appeal).

Lots of other people did have those problems.

Blizzard clearly believed that people were having those problems, since they were almost continuously refining lfg tools until coming up with the cross realm lfd tool...

I'm not making any claims about that; I simply know that single server lfg was worthless on many, if not most of the servers. I have, on occasion, referred to one of the people who have claimed that it vastly fixed the problems.

That's better than 6 hours; it's even better than my "we just need 1 of anything else" situation that was a multi-hour queue.

Because they didn't adapt cross server to deal with non-dungeons as far as I'm aware, and a big part of RIFT's schtick is the rift events.

No, this assumes that what I'm asking for only works in flash points, and I've been pretty plain about what I'd like to see.

I've actually suggested several of the items on his list and the followup lists, just FYI. The Rating system is too easy to abuse

They've been specific that due to legacy this is a looooong way off, if ever.

given tat their excuse is legacy, and that they're adding cross server pvp in the near future: cross server pve grouping is going to be much easier for them to add... they'll have already solved all of the technical issues.

Why? I'm not being sarcastic or facetious here, I really want to know specifically what your objection is, what you feel the "instant gratification" is, and what you think the "long run problems" are.

I hope I've been fairly clear about what I think the benefits of a cross-server LFG are, and so have others in this thread. Not "instant gratification" but a permanent, long-term solution to creating and forming groups for the group content that makes an MMO a multiplayer game.

I can defend this position, and I have a logical argument for my position. It's been stated previously and I'll restate it here:
(1) Increasing the pool of players to form groups from will decrease the time it takes to form each group. This is simple and obvious mathematics.
(2) Decreasing the time it takes to form each group will in turn decrease the wait for each individual player to be placed in a group. Again, simple math.
(3) Going from single server to cross server increases the pool of available players.

The unknown variable here is the question of how fast the time to form each group is. If a server's population is large enough, the time to form a group will be fairly low to being with. And so the benefit for moving cross-server might also be fairly low. For example if the single server LFG forms groups in 3 minutes and the cross server pool forms groups in 1 minute, there's not a lot of benefit there. The difference between a 1 minute and a 2 minute wait to form a group is relatively minuscule. However, when the server's population is low, off-peak times or on a low population server, the average time to form a group can be unreasonably high.

Let's posit that a server has 20 people at lvl 50 on at a given moment. Of those, half are PvP and half are PvE so there are 10 people who are even thinking about running a FP. 5 of those people are currently in a group. That leaves 5 people available for a FP. If one of those 5 people is afk or just wants to do dailies, that means that the 4 people who are in the LFG queue have to wait until someone else logs in or until the current group finishes it's FP and frees someone up to join a different group. This means a minimum wait time of about an hours (the time it takes to finish the FP) and a maximum wait time of 3 hours (the time it takes for the other 3 people in the queue to be done and open up a spot for you.

If you don't think it's possible to have 20 people at lvl 50, check out the following graph and scroll down. I wouldn't be surprised if the bottom few servers have 20 lvl 50s online.
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/...tribution1.png

Given all of that, it's beneficial to combine the pool of people looking for groups in those smaller servers to create a larger pool and thus lower the time it takes to get a group. If you combine the bottom 20 servers, you can go from 10 people to 200+ people in the LFG pool.

A permanent server merge of those servers would achieve the same effect, but only temporarily. Because in a few months, that new MEGA SERVER might lose some players or gain too many players. With a cross-server LFG tool, if some servers in the pool lose population and become too low, the game will simply add in more servers to keep the pool where it needs to be without affecting anything else. The game could swap servers in and out of the pool every month and people wouldn't be affected. If you did massive server merges and transfers every month, that would be a huge problem.

I honestly think the majority of anti-xserverLFDers have little or no experience with a X-server LFD. If they did have extensive experience with this TOOL they wouldn't be making all these ridiculous statements. For example:

Most of these people think you can't form groups if a X-server Tool is put in the game.

Really?

Seriously, if you're going to be against something so vigorously, at least know something about it.