No Cross Realm LFG tool please!

I am a casual late night player, and since I started playing since the game came out, I have had 3 50's, and all 3 have been able to tank or heal, and I have yet to see a single flashpoint or operation, due to the fact that people only wanna que for PVP cause they don't have to move. And the people that are doing flashpoints only do HM's, which def eliminates any chance I have, cause the only way to do HM's it seems is to just PVP your way to gear

The LFG tool is needed for us casual players like myself that pay the same amount of money as everyone else, and deserve a tool just like the one they use for PVP, simple as that.

How does LFG force you to play with people you don't want to? It doesn't let you drop group?

Do you honestly keep records of how Darthas took 'your' loot drop? Do you name and shame them in general chat? Would you do it here if Bioware allowed it? Do you write their name down if Sithiroth says in general that Darthas stole a drop during his run? Do you take someone's word for it or do you need to see it yourself? Innocent until proven guilty or convicted by accusation?

There are 1.7 million playing this game-there will be jerks. How is punishing players on low population servers, with limited time, or odd schedules going to make their experience better? Forcing them to team only with players from their server (who may be those said jerks) doesn't make their play experience any better-in fact it's possible that the only people online when they are ARE those jerks. No group activities for them, I guess? Reroll to a more populated server? Forget the minority?

You're not being forced to use it though, that's your choice. Just like grouping with people from your guild or friends list.

however for those on low pop servers, that's not much of an option if there's not enough people around to form groups with.

WoW's tool was not badly designed. It works as intended and more people enjoy it than hate it. This is proven by the sheer fact that it's still in use. If so many people hated it, they'd stop using it and Blizz would call it a failure. As it stands, people continue to use it constantly. The numbers speak louder than a few crybabies on a forum.

moving servers is also a very poor choice. People don't want to abandon characters they've spent months working on, to start all over again!

And please, do tell us about other games that have a Group Finder tool that is apparently far better than WoW's and not actually just the same.

Its not just me but yeah youre absolutely right. As I mentioned right after, we all just magically came to the same conclusion against the Xserver LFG. Totally fabricated and irrational just as I mentioned previously in a completely non-sarcastic fashion.

Says you. You point to WoW which has had successful grouping since day 1 and claim that its the only answer here despite all the negatives its brought ... oh wait ... youre already convinced there are no negatives and its all just a figment on our imagination. Dam youre good.

Ah ... the old burden of proof huh?

Ok, lets try that again since it seems you didnt click the link ...

This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third option, which is that there is insufficient investigation and therefore insufficient information to prove the proposition satisfactorily to be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four, (1) true, (2) false, (3) unknown between true or false, and (4) being unknowable (among the first three).[1] In debates, appeals to ignorance are sometimes used to shift the burden of proof."

Pay very close attention to the last sentence as its very very familiar to recent posts...


Yeah, because they trivialized all the vanilla content to where running an instance did nothing but grant you gear you'd replace almost immediately for content that was made even easier ...

... or wait was this some clever way of cutting my post to make it seem like I said the community went to the crapper before the LFD tool? Nice try. Even if I had said that, it doesnt mean its not in a far worse place now thank to LFD.

It did so much more than it currently does in TOR ... and you looks like crap to boot. Or would you like to point me the commendation vendor in vanilla WoW that gave me Blue quality Blue gear after getting 14 commendations from Westfall? Or maybe the multitude of soloable quests that gave you blue upgrades? Hell ill even take some evidence on how one could achieve a constant flow of blue quality gear by just crafting and RE'ing a few items.

The point, which you so cleverly edited out, was WoW went for so long without any grouping problems because it gave players incentive to do so.

So does same server.

Again, says you. Many others think there is more which can be done without all the negatives ... oh wait ... youre already convinced ... bah I said this already.

Same server allows people to go about their business while looking for groups server wide. We'll have to see what results 1.2 has on the population but assuming it stays this way there are other ways of providing a decent pool of players to group from that dont involve promoting even more bad behavior and benefit other parts of the game as well.

If it was so successful why was there a need for Group Finder at all?

Nobody here is arguing that Bioware has to copy blizzard's LFG exactly. Personally, I think that there are places to improve and i would like to see Bioware make some innovation and evolution of the idea.

This is an interesting idea, giving people a short time window, like the queue timer for PvP, to chat to other people in the group, discuss things, and leave the queue without penalty.

Thinking about it, I also think it would be interesting and beneficial to add a "rating" system, like youtube likes/dislikes. Each time you finish a dungeon, people can vote you up or down if they feel really strongly about the run. On an average run, people will just not click anything. If the run was amazing, people will 'like' you. Act like a jerk and you get a permanent black mark. Then, whenever you get queued into LFG, you can see the ratings for other people before the group forms and decide if you want to be in that group. It would keep griefing fairly low because someone would have to take time out of their way to downvote you, and since you are unlikely to see the same person again, it is unlikely that griefers could have any sort of meaningful campaign against a single person.

Again, the core of this debate should not be a referendum on World of Warcraft, but a discussion of the likely effects, benefits and downsides of restricting an automated group forming tool to each individual server, or opening it up to multiple servers.

I'm not a fan of "down-rating" players who don't perform well. This type of system is prone to griefing and trolling. There are people out there who will go to great lengths to harass a complete stranger. I think a system where you could "up-vote" a player for doing well though could be useful, however it would likely end up turning into another means for players to artificially gate content for other players. We could end up with a game where the good players who have the most to teach other players require a specific player rating before you can join their groups or avoid being kicked from a group with them.

Regardless of whether or not there is a ratings system for players though, the success of a LFG tool is in how it is implemented. This is something many people have been saying on this topic since the first page. I think it's a shame how closed-minded so many players have become on this topic simply because of the relatively few bad experiences they had in another game. There is plenty of room for a compromise that would work well and work for both sides of the issue. It's just proven to be very challenging to get individuals to set aside their egos long enough to discuss it intelligently.

Everyone on my friends list (over 100 people) I made while leveling has quit the game or gone to another populated server. I refuse to re-roll because I don't feel I should have to if BW is doing their job correctly. My guild is shrinking as well, and those that could tank or heal a hardmode FP simply don't because there is nothing in it for them. All in all, your "solutions" are about as useful as a sack of hammers. If you don't think this game needs cross server LFG then you're oblivious or you play on one of the handful of servers that haven't died yet.

Grouping in WoW wasn't easy from day 1. It was always spamming general chat trying to find a mage cause you needed that CC to fill out your group, or a the one prot warrior on your server since druids and paladins couldn't tank that well (or at all) in Vanilla. I'll admit cross server LFG damaged the sense of community on the server I was on, but that was because there was still a community left to damage. At this point where is the community on my server? I won't shed any tears if the "community" of 20 or so people left on my server suffers a bit if I can actually experience the content I pay BW $15 a month to see.


Everyone against cross server LFG bemoans the effect it will have on the community, but none of them acknowledge that for most of us, on our servers there is no community left.

Glad to hear it.

No... it's tautological: Cross server grouping is the only way I'll be able to group with people on other servers. If I can't group cross server then I can't group cross server...

Perhaps actually read the text you're going to quote?

No, not figments of your imagination. You're blaming stuff that wasn't caused by xserver lfg on xserver.

So, flawed logical analysis paired with rose colored glasses, not figment of imagination.

Yup, if you try to use something as the basis of your argument, the burden of proof is on you.

I'm familiar with the fallacy; it doesn't apply in this case because you're trying to use it as the basis of your argument, so I'm not setting up a false dichotomy; it's either true, false, unknown, or unknowable.

• If the claim you make isn't true then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
• If you haven't done enough investigation to prove that your premise is true, then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.
• If it's not possible to know whether your claim is in fact true of false, then you have not actually provided a valid argument against the lfg tool.

The only time youv'e made a valid argument against cross server lfg is if you can prove your basis/premise to be true. That's how logical implication works.


So the fact that your entire argument is invalid unless you prove that your premise is true (and that the burden of proof is on you) has nothing to do with the fallacy you've linked.

Actually, it doesn't: single server doesn't allow the latter on low pop servers. That's why I ran into 6+ hour queues single server in RIFT while queued as tank, heals, dps, and support (on my alt cleric). That's why someone on gnarlwood was posting screenshots of 12 or 16 hour queues when it was still single server. That's why I had a 1.5 hour queue when we had a tank, a healer, a support and a dps and just needed a 2nd dps (or any role, since the tank heal and support were also queued as dps) even at the level cap.

Indeed: the stuff that you're suggesting simply does not fix the problem. People still have problems finding groups off hours, at mid levels, and on low pop servers; the only way to actually fix that is to tear down the artificial server walls.

It leaves out the "finding groups" part though.