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MMO Design flaw


Skoobie's Avatar


Skoobie
03.31.2012 , 02:40 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Entreriii View Post
Yes, pvp games never got anywhere, wait doesnt Dark age of camelot still have a player base after 12 or 13 years? how does a mmo stay alive that long? maybe because they had 50+ different classes that all did different things and a pvp system where you advanced your character not your gear?
How big is the playerbase, and what's the most subscribers they had at one time?

I'll help: according to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Camelot the most they had were 250,000 and is currently less then 5000.

And how about all the other PvP games that have come out in the last 10 years?

krinaman's Avatar


krinaman
03.31.2012 , 02:57 PM | #72
Alright lets go with that idea:

So no levels, instead 10 tiers of end game content.

Of course for each tier, except maybe the last, you will need ways for players to catch up. I.E. if the main playerbase is on tier 10 new players are going to have a tough time finding people to run the tier 1 8 man ops.

So we need end game daily solo quests to catch up along with some optional group stuff in case they can get a group. Of course doing the same set of quests every day gets old so we need to add mutiple sub tiers for each of those 10 tiers. Let's say 5 per tier.

It also kind of sucks trying to catch up if you are limited to a certain number of daily quests per day so lets change them from daily to run once and let users run as many as they like. Of course we will need enough different ones so that they can reach the next sub-tier.

While we are at it tier and sub tier is a bit confusing so why don't we just number them and call them something else. I don't know? How about levels. So instead of tier 1.1 to 10.5 we can just have level 1 to level 50.

There, the perfect design. Oh wait, that's what we already got......

DarthAcerbus's Avatar


DarthAcerbus
03.31.2012 , 03:04 PM | #73
Leveling the first character was grand
Leveling the second was ok.
Third character and on was just a grind to get to the appropriate level for lovely class story quests.

HanVenatici's Avatar


HanVenatici
03.31.2012 , 04:09 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by notebene View Post
Sadly this is the new breed. Not saying you specifically, but the new breed wants to just pop-in and have lots of stuff to do through the universe with a brand new fully geared Call of Doody HALO XVI: NASCAR vs SyFy Wrastlin (Marry Yer Cousin Edition).

What I love most about MMOs is the journey, not the end. I miss the older longer curves. I don't miss corpse runs and other 'hard' things like that, I'm 'very' casual, but I like a slower leveling pace for sure. That is one thing that has been eroded away that is unfortunate.

Now that doesn't 'have' to be in the form of levels. But somehow tracking your arc and getting stronger and learning to use new things slowly, over a period of time, then selecting what things, out of every thing you've learned to that point, to use - that's great.

But to just be thrown into a game, with a bunch of death match PvP, all your abilities, and no growing left to do?

Well...

http://i.imgur.com/ItRbr.jpg
Well... thats not RPG. Its like all the single player games i have, short lived and fun while they lasted but time to move on.

I too like the journey and not the end, like to build my charactor up slowly with more than one point to spend.

As for the old MMORPGs, yes i miss them too but not the long corpse runs or the raiding.

As someone eles said here, wish they would stop mixing all the play styles up and shoving them into one cooking pot because the brew is sour.

Darnu's Avatar


Darnu
03.31.2012 , 08:10 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by BucMan View Post
Very few tabletop RPGs begin at max level. Single player CRPGs don't begin at max level. Why should an mmoRPG begin at max level???

I think you are looking for a game more like Jedi Outcast or Jedi Academy. They have different levels of force allocations for all of the players on the server. You assign your points to force powers and then join the fray be it FFA, team based, CTF, dueling, etc.....
Well it doesn't seem like Bolstering for pvp has destroyed the game. Computers have changed since MMORPG's were first designed. Servers and data storage systems have changed since then. Why make levelling where experience and character level is the main source of data storage just because it used to be necessary? Why make the levelling process take so long and be a long grind only to make planets become obselete if it's no longer necessary? Why stay locked into a system where hitting max-level makes the majority of the game irrelevant rather than opening up? Is it really necessary for character progression and the addition of further skills to only happen when levelling anymore? Does a tutorial phase deliberately need to be dragged out for so long before you can start progressing your character in other ways? Is it necessary to have the community all split up in varying levels to this extent anymore instead of a quick levelling process which serves as basic tutorials and then opening up the game in general?

Ansultares's Avatar


Ansultares
03.31.2012 , 08:11 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Skoobie View Post
And how about all the other PvP games that have come out in the last 10 years?
I came here looking for a great PvE experience, but at least there's the generic PvP here to keep me occupied with my subscription until it expires.

EJedi's Avatar


EJedi
03.31.2012 , 08:14 PM | #77
Look down...
If you pick up a novel, and see pages 2-899 only as obstacles between pages 1 and 900, then it may just be that you don't like reading.

Darnu's Avatar


Darnu
03.31.2012 , 08:40 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by EJedi View Post
Look down...
yeah you're right. I must be blind not to be noticing all those multitudes on Tattoine and Alderaan. If only I have been paying more attention I would have realized those were players I was tripping over or bumping into whenever I tried to walk

DalrisThane's Avatar


DalrisThane
03.31.2012 , 08:52 PM | #79
Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig.
I still miss 1990s FMV. I miss Wing Commander 3-4. I actually don't want a game. I’d prefer CYOA interactive movies any day. Until then, video games are the closest I can get...

DalrisThane's Avatar


DalrisThane
03.31.2012 , 08:55 PM | #80
Deleted. No point. Everyone is TLDR these days. +See Sig.
I still miss 1990s FMV. I miss Wing Commander 3-4. I actually don't want a game. I’d prefer CYOA interactive movies any day. Until then, video games are the closest I can get...