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ARENAS/Death match....NOW

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
ARENAS/Death match....NOW

Agooz's Avatar


Agooz
03.31.2012 , 12:15 AM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by broganthomas View Post
Again, only people I see calling for nerfs are war zone related.. And not the results of some small tournament no one has even heard of.
What do you think these QQing for Nerf is based on? The goal line in Huttball being too light that you cant see it? The Turret in Alderaan takes too long to capture??
OR
The QQing is more along the line of X class is sooooo OP I cant kill him?

That's the whole point of what I am trying to say. At least in WZ damage/dps and people getting 600k+ damage dont matter. Because as everyone who played enough game Damage does not win WZs.
In arenas on the other hand, there is no bigger picture. There is 2 Pyros/Vanguards pulling the sorc to their team and before the other team can even sneeze, the sorc will be flat on his back. You cant win an arena game if you're putting less dps. Afterall there is a finite pool of Health that a team has to eat through to win. Balance classes based on these types of PvP games will be the END of swtor.

Pantallika's Avatar


Pantallika
03.31.2012 , 12:21 AM | #152
I've seen a lot of gibberish posted here. Idiots calling idiots idiots accomplishes nothing, I know people don't wanna give wow credit but they ARE they biggest mmo on the market and the first mmo to get their style of pvp in the pro gaming circuit.

Also guild wars adapted the same style fo pvp for thier extremely successful mmo based mostly around pvp. I played mmos since uo in 1999. I played around 12 different mmos, seen good and bad ideas for pvp, warhammer had a ton, this game has a few good, and a lot of bad ideas for pvp.

Huttball is fun, but face it u nubs, huttball's based around map abuse, not pvp, charge, force pull, score goal, rinse and repeat. Knock into fire / poison for kills, charge / force-grip / positioning is not pvp, it is map abusing. Don't get me wrong I love huttball, it is fun, but it is also not really pvp oriented its more like a sport, where you can kill opposing players, but will win faster if you just focus entirely on healing and scoring the ball asap.

This game has directly stolen the other two warzones it uses from wow. Let me type that again. THIS GAME DIRECTLY STOLE TWO OF 3 WARZONES FROM WOW. So obviously the devs realize what all u swtor fanboys dont. Just because wow has something, doesnt mean it will ruin swtor pvp if they use it.

I for one am all for giving players equal gear to pvp with, class balance, and any and all types of pvp, the more warzones the better, the more world pvp the better (dont get me started on this games world pvp, its a laughing stock). World pvp was best done in warhammer, where players were funneled into one another while questing, and there was objectives, but warhammer dropped the ball on giving players too much incentive to just win trade.

Point of this post : this guy wants more ways to have fun pvping besides doing the same 3 lame warzones, I say give it to him, if your bashing him cause you think hes a wow fanboy cause he likes death match, your just stupid, and have no right posting on pvp forums. Death match is originally from first person shooters, not wow.

ugig's Avatar


ugig
03.31.2012 , 12:31 AM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Varicite View Post
You think that people would not cry nerf even w/out an Arena? Of course they would; they do right now.

No, you obviously acknowledge this happens whether they exist or not, so how does having an Arena setup make this any different whatsoever?
If you read back a post or 3 I said I am all for them adding arena's, ppl are gonna cry no matter what is or isnt in the game, its in their nature, the average gamer will cry rather than adjust to the situation and figure out different ways around their percieved problems.

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
03.31.2012 , 12:34 AM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by Pantallika View Post
I've seen a lot of gibberish posted here. Idiots calling idiots idiots accomplishes nothing, I know people don't wanna give wow credit but they ARE they biggest mmo on the market and the first mmo to get their style of pvp in the pro gaming circuit.

Also guild wars adapted the same style fo pvp for thier extremely successful mmo based mostly around pvp. I played mmos since uo in 1999. I played around 12 different mmos, seen good and bad ideas for pvp, warhammer had a ton, this game has a few good, and a lot of bad ideas for pvp.

Huttball is fun, but face it u nubs, huttball's based around map abuse, not pvp, charge, force pull, score goal, rinse and repeat. Knock into fire / poison for kills, charge / force-grip / positioning is not pvp, it is map abusing. Don't get me wrong I love huttball, it is fun, but it is also not really pvp oriented its more like a sport, where you can kill opposing players, but will win faster if you just focus entirely on healing and scoring the ball asap.

This game has directly stolen the other two warzones it uses from wow. Let me type that again. THIS GAME DIRECTLY STOLE TWO OF 3 WARZONES FROM WOW. So obviously the devs realize what all u swtor fanboys dont. Just because wow has something, doesnt mean it will ruin swtor pvp if they use it.

I for one am all for giving players equal gear to pvp with, class balance, and any and all types of pvp, the more warzones the better, the more world pvp the better (dont get me started on this games world pvp, its a laughing stock). World pvp was best done in warhammer, where players were funneled into one another while questing, and there was objectives, but warhammer dropped the ball on giving players too much incentive to just win trade.

Point of this post : this guy wants more ways to have fun pvping besides doing the same 3 lame warzones, I say give it to him, if your bashing him cause you think hes a wow fanboy cause he likes death match, your just stupid, and have no right posting on pvp forums. Death match is originally from first person shooters, not wow.
I agree w/ pretty much everything you said, but I just wanted to say:

I think deathmatch is the oldest form of PvP in the world. : D
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Dayfax's Avatar


Dayfax
03.31.2012 , 12:34 AM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by Pantallika View Post
I've seen a lot of gibberish posted here. Idiots calling idiots idiots accomplishes nothing, I know people don't wanna give wow credit but they ARE they biggest mmo on the market and the first mmo to get their style of pvp in the pro gaming circuit.

Also guild wars adapted the same style fo pvp for thier extremely successful mmo based mostly around pvp. I played mmos since uo in 1999. I played around 12 different mmos, seen good and bad ideas for pvp, warhammer had a ton, this game has a few good, and a lot of bad ideas for pvp.

Huttball is fun, but face it u nubs, huttball's based around map abuse, not pvp, charge, force pull, score goal, rinse and repeat. Knock into fire / poison for kills, charge / force-grip / positioning is not pvp, it is map abusing. Don't get me wrong I love huttball, it is fun, but it is also not really pvp oriented its more like a sport, where you can kill opposing players, but will win faster if you just focus entirely on healing and scoring the ball asap.

This game has directly stolen the other two warzones it uses from wow. Let me type that again. THIS GAME DIRECTLY STOLE TWO OF 3 WARZONES FROM WOW. So obviously the devs realize what all u swtor fanboys dont. Just because wow has something, doesnt mean it will ruin swtor pvp if they use it.

I for one am all for giving players equal gear to pvp with, class balance, and any and all types of pvp, the more warzones the better, the more world pvp the better (dont get me started on this games world pvp, its a laughing stock). World pvp was best done in warhammer, where players were funneled into one another while questing, and there was objectives, but warhammer dropped the ball on giving players too much incentive to just win trade.

Point of this post : this guy wants more ways to have fun pvping besides doing the same 3 lame warzones, I say give it to him, if your bashing him cause you think hes a wow fanboy cause he likes death match, your just stupid, and have no right posting on pvp forums. Death match is originally from first person shooters, not wow.
The key sentence is your final one.

FPS games don't have to deal with balancing issues. Arena can be amazing, and I have a great deal of respect for players that hone their timing and situational awareness well enough to play at high levels.

But for the unwashed masses, Arena ruined WoW. It took the focus of the game off where it should have been (big, cooperative group play) and put it on 6 guys killing each other in a small room.

People don't want to see a repeat of Blizzard's mistakes in SWTOR, and Bioware's readiness to copy whole swathes of Warcraft already makes people nervous. If you're duping the content this closely, you're also copying all of the mistakes.
"Sounds like you could use a soldier."

grfu's Avatar


grfu
03.31.2012 , 12:37 AM | #156
Excuse me, but, as a small aside, could you tell me when WoW implemented objective based pvp? I remember objective based pvp in Halo . . . and Tribes . . . and Unreal Tournament . . . and some other very old games that I haven't played in so long I can't even remember what they are anymore. Point is, there ain't much innovation anymore, so it's misleading to say "They stole it from *blank*."

On topic, really? A 150m by 250m room? What will that accomplish? Where is the tactical finesse? Where is the elegance of execution? Real combat does not take place in a 150m by 250m room. Real war is not won solely on who racks up the most kills. So you get your deathmatch. What are you achieving? What are you proving? That you can press buttons faster than the other guy? Try to think outside of the box. An arena deathmatch is the rawest form of pvp, but it is also the simplest and most boring.

Just my $.02.

BacklashEH's Avatar


BacklashEH
03.31.2012 , 12:46 AM | #157
I'd also like there to be an actual pvp map in this game at some point. Objective pvp is fine and all, but sometimes an actual deathmatch can be pretty outstanding.

ChaosDogg's Avatar


ChaosDogg
03.31.2012 , 01:07 AM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by grfu View Post
Excuse me, but, as a small aside, could you tell me when WoW implemented objective based pvp? I remember objective based pvp in Halo . . . and Tribes . . . and Unreal Tournament . . . and some other very old games that I haven't played in so long I can't even remember what they are anymore. Point is, there ain't much innovation anymore, so it's misleading to say "They stole it from *blank*."

On topic, really? A 150m by 250m room? What will that accomplish? Where is the tactical finesse? Where is the elegance of execution? Real combat does not take place in a 150m by 250m room. Real war is not won solely on who racks up the most kills. So you get your deathmatch. What are you achieving? What are you proving? That you can press buttons faster than the other guy? Try to think outside of the box. An arena deathmatch is the rawest form of pvp, but it is also the simplest and most boring.

Just my $.02.
WoW introduced objective based pvp in vanilla which was years ago.

And in arenas, when you die you don't come back and in most situations your team loses so the idea is to kill without being killed. You need to have a very good understanding of the game, what your team and the other team can do, what offensive and defensive cds are left and mind your positioning. Obviously, that is a very simple breakdown of what it is but it isn't entirely about who presses buttons faster than the other guy. What about Alderaan Civil War, what are you achieving? What are you proving? That you can right click a node and aoe on top of it to defend it? I can also make blanket statements that trivialize other forms of pvp when there is a lot more behind it.

Proppa's Avatar


Proppa
03.31.2012 , 01:11 AM | #159
Warzones and Arena's in general aren't as skillful in my opinion. Both are against equal numbers and you have a fair chance of predicting what's going to happen.

Atleast with Open World PvP, you may be 8 and come up against 12, you may need to play to avoid any zergs, you may get added on by a pack of stealthers. Nothing is predictable and numbers/classes aren't always equal, but your ability to time and use abilities are far more critical in those situations imo.
Imperial : 50 Sorcerer : Scepter of Ragnos.
Republic : 50 Vanguard : 50 Sentinel : 50 Scoundrel : 17 Sage : The Shadow Runner

ChaosDogg's Avatar


ChaosDogg
03.31.2012 , 01:15 AM | #160
Except that in world PvP, it is unfair to one side because of gear/number/positioning/class disadvantage and the superior side doesn't need as much skill to win so the point that it's more skillful is moot.

If you pit 2 teams against each other with similar teams and the exact same gear aka a competitive setting, the more skilled team will win simple as that.