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Feedback request from James Ohlen - Open World PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Feedback request from James Ohlen - Open World PvP

View Poll Results: What type of Open World PvP objectives would you most like to see?
'Raw' Open World 500 22.77%
PvPvE balanced 1,021 46.49%
Faction population capped 340 15.48%
Guild based (non-faction specific) 335 15.26%
Voters: 2196. You may not vote on this poll

DrMouth's Avatar

04.04.2012 , 09:23 AM | #331
i´d like to add one thing too.
ive played DAOC from 2001 on too, but left after TOA.
I somehow dont like the idea of leveling your items or getting new item sets over and over and if you dont have them you cant compete.
In the Beginning Daoc had something like an item cap at max level you got the best equipement through crafting and everyone could have it. (but you needed money which means playtime)
So only your skill and your groups skills were important in pvp, tactical cooperation (yes with teamspeak) and knowing your char and your enemys was the recipe for groups of 8 to win against larger numbers.
and as others already said you got the feeling that what you did in pvp ment something for your guild and your faction.
I miss that in all other games since then.

Warhammer did not reach that level again for one reason.
Daoc managed faction balance by useing a 3 group system. like the old stone scissor paper,
so if one faction was overpopulated, fighting against two different enemys balanced it. (most of the time)
all other games (except for EVE and Guild Wars) only feature two sides like WoW which is more prone to population balancing problems.
i think this is a major issue for developing a balanced pvp sytem.

Shaky_'s Avatar

04.04.2012 , 10:48 AM | #332
Some thoughts.

-Quality daily quests in open areas appetizing people’s desire to go there

-Instead of capture the flag, capture the chest. If the chest can be returned to faction/guilds home area, then (potentially) quality loot for all. This may require returning the chest on a path that would take the capturing team though check point areas, which would encourage battle areas.

-Bounty/level type system. The combined total levels of the opposing groups get compared and the rewards are adjusted. For example, a group of 4 level 50’s (200 total) beating up a group of 6 level 25’s (150 total) would get diminished rewards. By contrast 3 well equipped level 20’s beating 2 level 35’s would get bonus awards. This would enhance the market and hence the economy for quality lower level gear, and would encourage players to max equip their lower level toons. A variation of this could use the combined pvp ranking of each group for comparison, especially if both groups were level 50s. Any player who provides a de/buff, damage, or heal during the fight would be considered as part of the fighting group.

-Have world areas that are fought for and controlled by one faction or the other. These areas, when either individually controlled or some ratio controlled, could provide a small buff to the controlling faction, or some sort of bonus that would incline members of each faction to fight for control. These areas could be spread across the galaxy, on different worlds. A separate pvp queue (galactic pvp queue instead of warzone pvp for instance?) could be set up for people willing to travel to other worlds to fight. When an opposing faction begins to take over an area then a warning or invite could go out to all of the queued defending (as well as the attacking) faction about the risk of losing an area or the opportunity to take one. If the minimum required time to take over an area for control was extended to 10-20 minutes or so, this would give the defending faction time to respond. After control of an area has been established then a cool-down could start such that it cannot change hands again for a period of time, maybe an hour or so. This would eliminate pointless skirmishes that end in stale mates without a conclusion. These areas could be PvE balanced. Rewards for participation could include titles or badges for skirmishes. (galactic defender, Republic rapid response, defender of Hoth, world conquer, etc.).
"Are you guys ready? Okay, let's roll." Todd Beamer, 9/11/01

Chaos_Distortion's Avatar

04.04.2012 , 02:44 PM | #333
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkDruidSS View Post
No, it didn't work because it was GvG it worked in DAoC because you had 3 factions. It still wasn't trully GvG because you still had a faction behind you. In true GvG it's a free for all and everyone outside your guild is an enemy. Thus leading to mega guilds owning everything.

I also find it funny that you state your play time. I have been playing since 99 in Everquest and you are still wrong about PvPvE.
WTH are you on about, I clearly said three factions and not GVG, so why are you saying GVG in DAOC? I say GVGs in this game because it doesn't have three factions, I don't know where exactly in my statement you got GVGs from DAOC............. I can't even take you seriously because you failed to read my simple post, good job.. I clearly said DAOC had it right because they had three factions, then I went on to say that Guilds vs Guilds in this game would be the most ideal way, since this game does not have "three factions" like in DAOC. Kids like you really need to learn how to read.
Empathetic (Chaos Legacy): 50 Scoundrel (Sawbones) Healer, Empathetic: 50 Sage (Seer) Healer on Helm of Graush and various other Alts.
Been playing pvp Support/Healing in nearly every MMO since 1997 UO.

StephenReid's Avatar

04.04.2012 , 02:57 PM | #334
Thank you to everyone who voted and commented in this thread. We're happy to hear more feedback, but the poll has now closed.

If you'd like to vote and comment on James' feedback question for this week, please visit this thread.

TalonShar's Avatar

04.04.2012 , 03:07 PM | #335
Something I would love to see more of in the game, mass city attacks from the opposing faction. For instance having a set of bosses for a major settlement, and making it a goal to eliminate those bosses in the opposing factions city. This would cause more PVP action in the PVE environment, only on PVP servers of course. Some of the rewards could include titles, unique gear, bonus legacy points, or whatever Bioware can dream up.

JeramieCrowe's Avatar

04.04.2012 , 04:22 PM | #336
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonShar View Post
Something I would love to see more of in the game, mass city attacks from the opposing faction. For instance having a set of bosses for a major settlement, and making it a goal to eliminate those bosses in the opposing factions city. This would cause more PVP action in the PVE environment, only on PVP servers of course. Some of the rewards could include titles, unique gear, bonus legacy points, or whatever Bioware can dream up.
I bet this becomes a reality once the TOR timeline progresses to full-blown war, like the devs stated is the eventuality of the world arc.
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sulsakan's Avatar

04.04.2012 , 05:25 PM | #337
True “open world” pvp is probably not possible in SWTOR

Unfortunately, I think the problem with "open world" pvp in this game is going to be much more difficult to fix then many people think...because it's not an open world game structure to begin with. Look at the way that players are "railed" through the gauntlet of planets...where every planet is strictly designed for certain levels only. After you’re finished your missions on one planet, there's really very little reason to go back once you leave it. Once you hit 50 there's only Ilum and instanced playing (WZs, ops, etc.).
This is basically a single person game plopped into an MMO environment. The problem with the mindset that went into making this game is that, just like traditional single person games, the environment has to strictly control the players’ movements as he/she progresses through the quest lines. But this is where the big clash begins…because open world MMOs should not by any means try to control the players’ movements.

For example, as I was leveling up as a sage, I was getting pretty annoyed by how the geography and transportation mechanics (where you can only get to other places on taxi, and only after you unlocked them) were designed to limit a player’s movements. The fact that you couldn’t just get to a planet and get on your vehicle and move around to any part of the planet map at will was a big let down from the beginning. At first I figured, well maybe this is just a helping mechanism for peeps just getting started. Then I got to Anchorhead and as I started exploring around, I started to get this elated feeling that just maybe the game did open up, so I got on my bike and exited the city to explore the wide blue yonder…getting happy flashbacks of the good old days of SWG…until I hit the “barrier”! When I realized that this deadly “exhaust” barrier (or whatever it’s called) surrounded the city, I just got sick to my stomach. Then it infuriated me…this obsession to control everyone’s movements had gone too far. This is when I realized that the advertisement that through this game we could live our own saga in a Star Wars universe was totally false…instead, what we are living is their saga, they way they want us to live it.
And it’s such a horrible shame too…this is such a beautiful game, with such potential, but it’s like living in a crystal palace…everything looks nice but you can’t live in it, interact with it…it’s all just for show…like the player ships, just beautiful, but cant decorate and do anything to them that makes you feel like you’re actually living in it.

So at the end of the day, just like a single person game, once you are done the quest lines, there’s little to do…and just like a single person game, once you’re done, then it’s off to the next game. If BW ever hopes to keep this game going for many years, where the same players keep paying month after month for many years, they will need to redesign the environments on each planet (or at least a good number of them) so that it is a truly an open universe…but I doubt this will happen.

Let's take the early version of SWG as a contrast exercise...they basically built a true open universe where there were things to do on all planets all the time...there were reasons other than missions to go to other worlds even at maxed levels (player cities, mining resources, collecting hide, etc.). Thus players of maxed levels were found everywhere, all the time, which had the effect of opening up the universe by spreading the population throughout all planets. Add to this the player city bases, then later the various open pvp zones spread throughout different planets, and you could find good pvp on any particular planet at any particular time.

The problem with SWTOR is that they took the phrase "open world pvp" too literally...basically confining open pvp to just one world, lol. Sure you could get on a pvp server (as I have) and you are overt in most of the planets...but the problem is that most of the end game population is bottled up on Ilum or WZs and there are no compelling reasons to spread them out throughout all the planets.

The problem is not that Ilum failed the pvp’s that having only one world for open pvp is what failed the community. And in order to fix that they would have to "open up" each world and give them good reasons for players to be all over the place all the time. But given the highly controlled nature of each world...I think it will be very hard for anyone to come up with viable ideas of getting players to planets that they have finished already. For example, even if the devs decided to implement player housing, cities, etc., the geography just won't allow for this…they would have to expand the limits of each planet to have enough real estate for player houses, etc.

This thread was written a few months ago and is the best option to reviving OWPVP:
The problem is that it would require the creation of new worlds just for pvp…I don’t thing BW has the resources or the time to get this all done before this game is completely barren of players. The Devs should have taken this seriously when it was written back in January.

Anyways, this is kind of a sad realization, given that this game could have had such potential if they had gone about designing the planets and geography in a different way...but I believe that they have gone too far beyond the event horizon to be able to pull back and redesign things so that it would be a true open universe. As it stands now, it is still a fun game on a part time basis...but it will never reach the level of player absorption (where you really feel that you are living in that universe) that SWG did for instance. I certainly don't see myself playing this game for as many years continuously as I did SWG.
Sulsa Kan

Kron_Tomezia's Avatar

04.04.2012 , 10:48 PM | #338
Raw Open World pvp system. Similar to DAoC's New Frontiers RvR Realm Point ability system with Darkness Falls. Seige keep/ base taking and ability system gained through PvP play. With Mythic on board I had high hopes for the pvp in this game but unfortunately the PvP is so watered down and basic that I'm finding it difficult to motivate myself to even play the game anymore. I've been waiting 5+ years for this game since I heard BioWare were hiring for the Austin location I knew it was for this game. I'm really let down and disappointed... When GW2 and Tera come out I don't think I'll be able to resist them.
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masterbason's Avatar

04.05.2012 , 07:25 AM | #339
I would like to see a true pvp war like the chip war in the rising force online =\

Sombreza's Avatar

04.05.2012 , 10:11 AM | #340
I think you should like I said before make open world pvp everywhere! Give objectives everywhere so we can get credits, buffs, pvp xp, rewards so forth. and in some zones make ffa pvp avalable. Also make it so where you can actually fight your guildies. What would be better then to fight your own friends. For those who have issues with thinking they are the best in the guild. So yes this is what will keep your game going and bring new blood to the game. Make it happen!
"The Power of the Dard Side!!!"