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Feedback request from James Ohlen - Open World PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Feedback request from James Ohlen - Open World PvP

View Poll Results: What type of Open World PvP objectives would you most like to see?
'Raw' Open World 500 22.77%
PvPvE balanced 1,021 46.49%
Faction population capped 340 15.48%
Guild based (non-faction specific) 335 15.26%
Voters: 2196. You may not vote on this poll

FalmeseReb's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 02:54 AM | #101
Since the game only has two factions any attempt at pitting them against each other will be unbalanced and being beat 3:1 isn't fun, nor is winning completely lopsided fights. Guild based is the way to go. It makes sooo much sense on a lore level for both the Empire and Republic. You could even combine a guild system into a faction vs faction system by making guilds akin to feudal vassals vying for control of certain resources/areas/whatever that give them unique capabilites or buffs to aid them in defending their faction. If you could pull off enough of that political power in the hands of the players it will really add to the game and the sense of a virtual world. I feel like the Old republic has a lot of room to make this kind of system believable and realistic and really fun for the players.

HileyQuiggley's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 03:10 AM | #102
Guild vs Guild
I joined a PvP server not a PvPvE server. Only reason I dont want FvF is because of imbalance.
Everyone can find a Guild. If that said Guild isnt very good then its there players not an
imbalance. Also if your up against a better guild just ally with some others and take them out.

I dont want to be forced to PvE even with PvP in the mix.
The Gunnery Commando
Quiggley DownUnder

Obi-Shinobi's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 03:17 AM | #103
Can i vote for raw open world pvp 200 more times? come on "pvpers".
Obi-Shinobi < Guile >

Legendary Kilr's

yboewen's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 03:17 AM | #104
My favorite PvP experience, by far, was Dark Age of Camelot's Frontier warfare. I feel that's something that can be implemented in a variety of game lore worlds and maybe an idea to keep in mind when designing a new PvP option for STOR.

Starhugger's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 03:56 AM | #105
Heard you guys like feedback and ideas

PvPvE: tricky business, hard to do right, we will need insant transportation to the arena, could use the PvE buffing mechanic like in WAR (other faction members in the PvE area around do PVE stuff that buffs the PVP guys like HC dailies to kill their minimap, or hack the others turett system) also smaller maps please, like twice a warzone not 10 times, speedering just kills the mood! Also take a look at the synergy between Dust 413 (or something) and eve: you already got ships and ground combat let me do incentivised space missions above the place to take away their air support (also really lore friendly idea)

Guild vs Guild: I can only imagine this with the eventual guild ships: Guild leader of 8 or 16 challanges other Guild leader (officer) in chat with a /guild duel they both get a random place in space where they warp to in the now instanced guild ships and from that its basically esseless/voidstar. I would love to do that + the added benefit of it forging the guild spirit.
EDIT: Please take a look at CrimeCraft: Gangwars - what they did there could be awesome If a guild beats another guild in a certain area they get to hold that place for several hours which generates revenue to the guild bank this could work in synergy with the above idea and people could see on the galaxy map which guild controls the space above Voss for example. This helps to make the guilds famous, which is an important epeen factor, and could get buffs for you faction on the planet. Atm I don't even know which giuld is the best on my server and would like to. I'm positive this would help the spirit of the servers. (also you can add same faction battles for space stations in outer rim places.)

Faction Population capped: Well I don't know don't we have warzones for that? If it would work by queing from the station, imagine poor imp guys sitting in line for an hour cursing life. If you make it so that they can do warzones in a simultaneous que maybe. Otherwise I'm not a fan of the idea because cap will be only an issue on one side (like ten reps against capped 50 imps if you mess up the system)

Raw PVP: I'm certain it can be made good just needs more attention from the crew! for example: - Smaller map or the whole planet made pvp even on pve servers (small planet mind you) so if there is 30 imps around I can at least see 1-2 from anywhere on the map acting like certain red flags to certain bulls. Also you can always add more Line fo Sight stuff so people fight in a relatively small area but movement and positioning counts for more than numbers. I'm thinking mazes, trenches: this might help with the load on smaller machines too
- Secondly, traveling made easy If PvPaul on the battlefield says to PvPenny from the guild that they need help on the battlefield she could get there easily with certain transportation devices found on Belsavis...
- Thirdly incentive! So the Illum buff was meh the armaments were even more meh, and when you decided to leave the blood combine (aka the dirty 16) to shoot the objective you crippled yourself not getting the kills of the others. One needs to have more objectives on the battlefield have you guys seen a war movie? this group has this objective that has that. Imagine that you as a sneaky char like a scrapper get personalyised objectives on your playstyle on the battlefield (maybe use the most points in skill tree) like sneak in enemy base kill x players there and blow stuff up, while a trooper gets points for killing sneakies in the base, while a sage healer gets objectives for healing x amount of people for x, and like a sniper gets a medal for killing people without getting damage. I hope you can see what I mean, this would be Dynamic and Immersive and your
PR guys could show off with it. this is similar to the medal system but not quite the same.

I really hope someone reads this as I only post on forums twice a year...

(pleas don't grammarize me I'm Hungarian ok?!)

aluren's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 04:01 AM | #106
How about making the flash point entrances or operation entrances in the open world so as to promote pvp in such areas. This open world pvp doesn't have to be objective based at all. Just a suggestion to consider to promote pvp in other areas, or even new areas.

silky_soft_'s Avatar

03.29.2012 , 04:04 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by StephenReid View Post

Guild based - everyone is your enemy except players in your guild. Guilds claim objectives.
No factions. Allow alliances from both sides
wtb silence skill
wtb solo and 4 man ranked warzones
wtb cross server que
wtb 1 united server

Narfirill's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 04:05 AM | #108
guild based is not good...primarily because it conflicts with republic background.... they are not sith fighting constant civil wars they try to unite after all... and to be pro active: no gang/mob wars , separatists and corporate wars are not that important or big enough and not even a focus.

open raw: could work if it is made that way that population is dispersed correctly and there is proper counterbalances, of any kind, for population problem.

pvpve sounds promising and pve part of community that wines that pvp community demands mess with their fun could be enticed to be part of it.

somewhere between raw and pvpve sounds good to me

edit: with war oficialy on now you can blur the lines of oposition. so far the questing areas felt like porders my side their side. treat them now as a battle front were the no area of operations have depthe and the objective usualy is behind enemy lines.
that creates with no extra mechanism pvp reason... i would gladly camp an enemy quest objective for a wile and if ganget LOL and continue my game.
wish you intelligence because luck runs out

Anonymousy's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 04:09 AM | #109
guild vs guild.
The whole bolstering is (outside of the 10-49 warzones) a terrible idea. be it with stats or npc. there is and can never be a perfect balance. also there shouldn't be. the better players, those with superior strategy, etc are supposed to win.

reasons why it will never be 'fair':
'Raw' Open World: Zerg is successful because no coordination. No real impact anyway.
PvPvE: if the supporting items are too good, it is contra-productive to bring people. if they are worse (as it will be), they don't change the outcome.
Faction population capped: generates playing times. we already have that in form of winning/losing streaks based on faction and time of the day (and day of the week). reason for that is that the % of bad players vary by time. all pvp with max group size suffers from that, will never be changed as long as pvp is not event based and in organized groups.
Guild based: also not fair but differences are earned. you think organizing a 100man group is easy? zerging doesn't work anymore if the defenders are even a little bit smart. because if the defenders have a spy in front of a choking point or just see it from their defense, the attacker runs into 4 simultanous orbital strikes, 5 cluster bombs etc and die. guild based pvp requires management and player skill. with it's rewards and competitive nature it can give a nice end game variant.

Xigfrid's Avatar

03.29.2012 , 04:21 AM | #110
Managing world pvp is an art, I am not that kind of artist but I have spent 10 last years into MMO-games and have some taste for acknowledging what could be a great pvp experience from a bad one.

First, you asked us about the rules or story line that would excite us more. This would define the rules telling who our opponents are and the "objectives". These define the "game mechanics", in other terms the hidden rules that controls how often and how long a certain player would spend in the PVP area. It has absolutely nothing to do with the enjoyment and excitement a player could feel.
The enjoyment and excitement comes from great fights, epic ones. And this is quiet difficult to make it great for everyone: I mean soloers, stealth ones, 4-men / 8-men groups and for large scale raids. Everyone should find a lasting motivation to spend its entire playing time with a great scenario and great rewards.

Raw PVP without population restriction is quiet outdated. But anyway, you can make it viable even when a faction is 1v3+ ratio. You got to have some "mechanic" or "map configuration" where the under-numbered faction can stand and still have fun. Here comes to my mind the medieval fortress. They were build in a manner where the defenders would easily stand a larger group of attackers: Casters would dps and hide from small windows, healers would hide from attackers' LOS and heal their partners quiet easily, and surprise me to make a cac able to defend such a point.
In Ilum, the turret were a total fail: placed in wide open space, if a single player can reach it, that turret can wipe out an entire raid within seconds: this is going from total domination to total wipe in seconds. You should have called these turrets the nuclear launch site to be more explicit.
Make opportunities for soloers, some places where they safely see incoming groups and could hide behind walls or in houses or making a place that would randomly split a group and giving a fair chance to 1v1.

PVPVE balanced is commonly used in PVP environments for one simple reason. People need to sleep. If a server has "low" hours, PNJs should prevent small groups from unbalancing the current state of the world PVP.
In Ilum this is just ridiculous to have all the points tagged by a single player in 10min maximum and being said that the "Empire/Republic controls Ilum"... That is not Epic.
Also PNJs should guard something important, key-turning for the PVP "story", not just assisting players (we got our pets for that), that should be difficult to obtain without resistance, and totally epic with defenders.

Faction Balancing with strict balance of population: we already got that, you called it Warzones. If you want to make a larger Warzone, do it but never call it "world-pvp" please. How can you likely make a scenario that would limit the dark/light side balance to instanced matches between limited population? How would you justify that one Valor Ranked 90 character couldn't be participating to the world effort when a fresh character has been randomly selected in his place to determine the world balance? What is the logical aspect on World balance of such instanced combats where the dark side can be winning one and the light side winning the other one?
I really can't see a matching scenario for that option.

Guild based PVP. Can be really an interesting concept, but NOT by literally using guilds as "faction groups". SWTOR need more than 2 factions to proper balances its world pvp. But going to the extreme where anyone is an enemy except your own guild is BAD. I would see a 3 to 4 "factions", with a political story lines to back it up, where any player should choose his political camp determined by his DARK/LIGHT levels by example, preventing players to change faction within hours, and the world pvp would be battles for political ideals. (instead of guild domination)
Anyway, choosing a faction should give advantages and disadvantages over the others, this where temporary alliances can start and this can turn to be exiting world pvp.

To conclude, the great solution would be a 3 to 4 factions revamp using the "Guild based system" as explained, with as few as possible PNJs to maintain the factions equilibrium during "empty hours". The fightings would take place in "Raw PVP areas" where small groups could eventually contain larger ones thanks to the "last" fortress and soloers can still enjoy 1v1 combats.