As spring break just rolled around the corner, I'm now blasting through levels on my PT to get to 50. Currently at 42 (leveling as a tank and I find it rather boring), I decided to figure out what I wanted to do once patch 1.2 came out.

 

Obviously, this was a great time to read the current updated patch notes to see what was going to be changing.

 

I was pretty distraught to see that the Pyro spec that everyone seemed to favor playing for PT dps was getting hit rather hard. We all understand PPA STILL having the stupid RNG factor in it on top of RS once every 6 seconds is stupid. This makes heat management TERRIBLE. It was already relatively bad if you had poor RNG procs and now this...

 

Last time I heard anything Adv.P was pretty terribad. =/ I see it is getting somewhat buffed though with Immolate counting towards Prototype Flamethrower stacks.

 

So my question to you oh-so-dps-savvy characters on the forums is: what spec is going to be preferred for optimal damage results in PvE encounters?

Still Pyro. The nerf is more of a PvP nerf.

in PvE AP = Pyro with good procs now.... 1.2 AP gets buffed and Pyro no longer can get luck strings of procs.

The specs did move closer to each other in 1.2, but Pyro is still ahead as things stand. I don't know if this remains true in BiS 1.2 gear though. At some point reasonably soon AP will move ahead of Pyro simply due to raw scaling. If it doesn't happen with this set of gear, it's pretty much guaranteed to do so in the next.

Pyro still destroys AP in PvE simply because of Burnout. 2 DoTs ticking on top of eachother that crit and then do 30% more damage when mob is below 30%=alot of time where DoTs reign in damage.

 

AP is decent, but still far behind pyro, damage wise.

Still Pyro. The nerf is more of a PvP nerf.

 

No it´s not. If it messes up our heat regen it´s not only a pvp nerf. Unless you consider it´s fine sticking 3 Rapid shots into a pve rotation to avoid overheating at times.

in PvE AP = Pyro with good procs now.... 1.2 AP gets buffed and Pyro no longer can get luck strings of procs.

 

Yea anyone who tells you AP=Pyro "now", just move on to the next post Hec even with 1.2 changes Pyro is still ahead by at least 6% based on parse. lol

Edited March 28, 2012 by Agooz

Yea anyone who tells you AP=Pyro "now", just move on to the next post Hec even with 1.2 changes Pyro is still ahead by at least 6% based on parse. lol

 

But....but....but....I like stabbing people with Retractable Blade. I feel like Predator!!!! I mean come on Stabbing people and the Flame Thrower is freakign awesome looking. Who cares that the animation takes so long that you can do more dps in the meantime. I AM THE PREDATOR! I STAB PEOPLE IN THE CHEST WITH MY BLADE!

 

 

Okay so Pyro is still well above because the dots hit harder and Retractable Blade and Flame thrower/Flame Burst/Immolate are clunky and the animation means you have to cut off your dps if you have to move at all.

 

AP to me is the coolest looking out of all the specs, stab, punch, and flame thrower in the face is absolutely hilariously cool. Unfortunately cool does not equal best.

No it´s not. If it messes up our heat regen it´s not only a pvp nerf. Unless you consider it´s fine sticking 3 Rapid shots into a pve rotation to avoid overheating at times.

 

Current sustainable pyro rotation, considering amount of PPA procs being more or less equal to statistical average:

 

RS > rapid shots > FB > FB > FB > RS

 

RS > FB > FB > FB > RS leads to quick overheat

 

1.2 sustainable pyro rotation

 

RS > rapid shots > FB (or TD, or anything you wish with 16 heat cost) > FB > FB > RS

 

Any visible differences?

 

Thought so.

 

Statistical chance for getting 9 seconds without PPA proc is about 30% lower in 1.2 (over 9% now, over 6% in 1.2), even when we consider fact that you will have 2 less chances to proc PPA due to ICD.

 

You are free to check threads about 1.2 nerf here and in pvp forum, overall conclusion is that in prolonged boss fight, sustained dps of pyro PT is unaffected.

 

I dont know how much AP is buffed, not my pair of shoes, but pyro is as viable as before.

Current sustainable pyro rotation, considering amount of PPA procs being more or less equal to statistical average:

 

RS > rapid shots > FB > FB > FB > RS

 

RS > FB > FB > FB > RS leads to quick overheat

 

1.2 sustainable pyro rotation

 

RS > rapid shots > FB (or TD, or anything you wish with 16 heat cost) > FB > FB > RS

 

Any visible differences?

 

Thought so.

 

Statistical chance for getting 9 seconds without PPA proc is about 30% lower in 1.2 (over 9% now, over 6% in 1.2), even when we consider fact that you will have 2 less chances to proc PPA due to ICD.

 

You are free to check threads about 1.2 nerf here and in pvp forum, overall conclusion is that in prolonged boss fight, sustained dps of pyro PT is unaffected.

 

I dont know how much AP is buffed, not my pair of shoes, but pyro is as viable as before.

 

Since you don´t want to read yourself I´ll explain it to you :

 

- Prototype Particle Accelerator now requires Combustible Gas Cylinder to trigger. The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significantly but cannot trigger more than once every 6 seconds.

 

This is the main change. Want to know how it screws us? Here we go.

 

First let´s look at what PPa does :

 

- Flame Burst has a [10 / 20 / 30]% chance and Rocket Punch has a [15 / 30 / 45]% chance to finish the cooldown on Rail Shot and make the next Rail Shot free.

 

The cd being increased to 6 secs means we only get a RS 6 secs technically but ofc it can be more (I won´t extend on that since there are way too many posts explaining it already).

 

Now let´s see the magical ability Superheated Rail :

 

- Rail Shot ignores [15 / 30]% of the target's armor. In addition, if Rail Shot hits a burning target, it has a [50 / 100]% chance to vent 8 heat and refresh the duration of your Combustible Gas Cylinder's burn effect if present.

 

Here is the problem with the cd on PPA. We get fewer RS´s statistically but superheated rail stays the same so it doesn´t take much to see that our heat issues will be more severe since you technically can throw 3 RS´s in the 6 -7.5 secs window if your lucky or at least 2 which meants 16 heat vented.

 

You won´t have this way to vent heat anymore so what are you going to replace it with? Rapid shots cause you know you can´t afford to risk a RP or a DB as PPa won´t be proccing anyway.

 

Not to mention you technically my have to set the target on fire again before RS can be used again.

 

They put a cd on a proc, make that proc have better chances of proccing but it´s not a guaranteee but don´t counter balance us with anything to benefit our heat management since apart from "Vent heat" we don´t have any other way of venting heat.

 

If you fail to see the difference I don´t know how I can convince you...

Read all 1.2 patch notes, not only half. Sure, there is 6 sec ICD on PPA proc. But there is increased chance of PPA proc from FB and RP, to 45% and 60% respectively.

 

Additionally, ICD on PPA proc starts when you use ability that proc it, so you use 2 GCD worth of ICD by getting proc and firing off RS. You have only 2 GCD afterwards, when you cant proc PPA.

 

Armed with that knowledge and a bit of basic math (like fact that 16+16+16 > 6x5+8) read my post again, maybe you will understand now.

Read all 1.2 patch notes, not only half. Sure, there is 6 sec ICD on PPA proc. But there is increased chance of PPA proc from FB and RP, to 45% and 60% respectively.

 

Additionally, ICD on PPA proc starts when you use ability that proc it, so you use 2 GCD worth of ICD by getting proc and firing off RS. You have only 2 GCD afterwards, when you cant proc PPA.

 

Armed with that knowledge and a bit of basic math (like fact that 16+16+16 > 6x5+8) read my post again, maybe you will understand now.

 

- Prototype Particle Accelerator now requires Combustible Gas Cylinder to trigger. The chance to trigger this effect has been increased significant

 

Again you are the one who fails to read. I even sticked the important change in my post. There isn´t a lot to read tbh. I´ll say again we are basically the same with a 6 sec base cd on our main heat regeneration. Now youré trying to tell me it´s the same rotation. Well if it was the same then there would be no point in making the change now would it?

 

Stop acting like mr. knows it all cause frankly it´s the second time you accuse me of not reading when clearly the opposite is happening.

 

Btw I have to ask you did you test this on the PTS or you just talking. If not I suggest you try with it like some of us did and then come back to me instead of trying to math it out.

Nerf was to pyro burst, not sustained dps. Even poeple who disagree with me about severity of this burst-nerf impact on pyro viability in pvp agrees that it basicaly stays the same in pve, because you currently on average cant use PPA proc more often than every 7,5 seconds in prolonged fight and this number will not change in 1.2.

 

Or maybe you think RS > FB > FB > FB > RS is sustainable? It is not, you end with 10 more heat than you started. You need rapid shots NOW to manage heat.

 

1.2 is nerf to pyro burst. Nothing more.

Or maybe you think RS > FB > FB > FB > RS is sustainable? It is not, you end with 10 more heat than you started. You need rapid shots NOW to manage heat.

 

1.2 is nerf to pyro burst. Nothing more.

 

Look dude, I never said it didn´t affect pvp more than pve. In fact I agree with you there , it affects pvp more than pve but obviously for the different reason or the "kill or be killed rule" that doesn´t really apply to pve because its static content.

 

On the other hand classes that are proc based don´t have a rotation like you´re suggesting but instead a priority system (yes its a long war of rotation vs priority but I still don´t call it a rotation).

 

Now ofc, in terms of sustained rotation (if we had a fixed one) the one you posted would always overheat, no questions there.

 

The thing is where I could have streaks (since there are many bosses where you need burst dmg, not sustained dmg) of 3 RS´s in the 6-7.5 sec(for instance) window are gone pure and simple.

 

Let´s say you´re at the Soa shield downphase or teh fabricator shield off phase and you need some serious nukes. Guess what player, you ain´t got any, you will be able to use at max 2 RS´s during the burn phases of those 2 bosses.

 

The problem is you are assuming the difference between pvp and pve is pvp = burst and pve = sustained dmg an as I just told you thats BS.

 

And btw even in pvp you had to stick in a few Rapid shots in order to not overheat(or unless you are counting on dying quite often and then you can constantly overheat) the issue is you´re going to have to use a lot more now to keep from overheating.

 

PS I remind you that this is about the nerf affecting only pvp which I disagree.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Agenteusa

Alright guys! Thanks for all the input. Gonna stick with Pyro, then! Good to hear that after testing its only really affecting the burst capabilities and not the sustained damage potential!

 

EDIT: So what stat caps should i be going for for pyro pve? Rail shot is white damage, so should I focus on getting accuracy up to 105%? Or should I take the crit/surge route and get those up as much as possible?

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zajuir

Look dude, I never said it didn´t affect pvp more than pve. In fact I agree with you there , it affects pvp more than pve but obviously for the different reason or the "kill or be killed rule" that doesn´t really apply to pve because its static content.

 

On the other hand classes that are proc based don´t have a rotation like you´re suggesting but instead a priority system (yes its a long war of rotation vs priority but I still don´t call it a rotation).

 

Now ofc, in terms of sustained rotation (if we had a fixed one) the one you posted would always overheat, no questions there.

 

The thing is where I could have streaks (since there are many bosses where you need burst dmg, not sustained dmg) of 3 RS´s in the 6-7.5 sec(for instance) window are gone pure and simple.

 

Let´s say you´re at the Soa shield downphase or teh fabricator shield off phase and you need some serious nukes. Guess what player, you ain´t got any, you will be able to use at max 2 RS´s during the burn phases of those 2 bosses.

 

The problem is you are assuming the difference between pvp and pve is pvp = burst and pve = sustained dmg an as I just told you thats BS.

 

And btw even in pvp you had to stick in a few Rapid shots in order to not overheat(or unless you are counting on dying quite often and then you can constantly overheat) the issue is you´re going to have to use a lot more now to keep from overheating.

 

PS I remind you that this is about the nerf affecting only pvp which I disagree.

 

Your problem is assumption that you will get that burst. Again, chance for not getting proc in 4 GCD in new system is 30% lower than in 6 GCD in current system. My point is that yea, you have chance for great burst in this phase and you have nice chance for being almost useless and overheated. In 1.2 you will have lower burst, but much lower chances for being almost useless and overheated.

 

PS. I never said it is pvp-only nerf. I said it is burst-only nerf which impacts pvp much more than pve.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Kaarsa

PS. I never said it is pvp-only nerf. I said it is burst-only nerf which impacts pvp much more than pve.

 

Ok then, the question is my post that you commented was about me replying to someone else that said it was mostly a pvp nerf. And I replied that it wasn´t just a pvp nerf.

 

Case settled then.

PvE dps should be ok. Edited March 30, 2012 by Aradax