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No Cross Realm LFG tool please!


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DigitalPrime's Avatar


DigitalPrime
03.27.2012 , 06:02 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by terminova View Post
No, you are misinformed. Greatly, in fact. WoW, in 2005 did not have such a mechanism. Neither did WoW have such a mechanism until quite a few years later, and, at the time of Cataclysm, only applied to level 60+ dungeons, not sub-level 60 dungeons. Then, to keep players from abusing the heavily modified NBG loot system, they had to lock any item Needed on in a dungeon to the player to keep it from being used as a method of getting BoE epics maybe one other person could roll on but the player didn't actually need simply to sell on the AH for thousands of gold. Blizzard even stated that was why they were implementing that particular change, as well.



Red herring. Doesn't matter how many times a single player was kicked or a particular player was kicked or if one specific person was never or ever kicked for that reason. The fact is that Blizzard saw what was happening with the cross server LFD system (because they own and run the servers) and saw that players were forming groups of 3-4, and using that to their advantage to boot someone for no reason other than to bring their buddy in just before the last boss, or to simply filter through the DPS role players. If that wasn't actually happening on a regular basis, there wouldn't have been a need for restricting the vote-kick rule, for requiring more votes to kick a member of the group if 3-4 of the players joined the LFD system as a partial group.



You are right, they are. Please stop making them.
You sir just won post of the thread !


Great post!

He just just got served!

Meldwyn's Avatar


Meldwyn
03.27.2012 , 06:20 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by terminova View Post
No, you are misinformed. Greatly, in fact. WoW, in 2005 did not have such a mechanism. Neither did WoW have such a mechanism until quite a few years later, and, at the time of Cataclysm, only applied to level 60+ dungeons, not sub-level 60 dungeons. Then, to keep players from abusing the heavily modified NBG loot system, they had to lock any item Needed on in a dungeon to the player to keep it from being used as a method of getting BoE epics maybe one other person could roll on but the player didn't actually need simply to sell on the AH for thousands of gold. Blizzard even stated that was why they were implementing that particular change, as well.

Red herring. Doesn't matter how many times a single player was kicked or a particular player was kicked or if one specific person was never or ever kicked for that reason. The fact is that Blizzard saw what was happening with the cross server LFD system (because they own and run the servers) and saw that players were forming groups of 3-4, and using that to their advantage to boot someone for no reason other than to bring their buddy in just before the last boss, or to simply filter through the DPS role players. If that wasn't actually happening on a regular basis, there wouldn't have been a need for restricting the vote-kick rule, for requiring more votes to kick a member of the group if 3-4 of the players joined the LFD system as a partial group.
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

They didn't have a cross server LFG tool in 2005 either, soooo, there would be no reason to have a mechanism in place to keep people from ninja'ing loot in that manner (because the community policed this, or so the anti-lfg arguments go.. it didn't do this?). Once the tool was implemented, shortly there after, they implemented this as well. Oh, and sub-60 items selling for thousands of gold? LOL

Red herring? Palease! If there are no issues with getting kicked, why bring it up? You have no facts to back up anything you are saying, none! But let me quote Ghostcrawler from his Cataclysm post mortem for you...

"They liked the convenience of Dungeon Finder"

So, the players like the dungeon finder... hmmmm
My epiphany about End Game in SWTOR!

ferroz's Avatar


ferroz
03.27.2012 , 06:27 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by DigitalPrime View Post
So now people are not subbing due to lack of features. This just gets better

Last week - lack of content

Week before - Ilum

Week before that - Bugs

Week before that - bored at 50


Now its the lack of features such as x-server LFD LOL


Strawman!
No, a strawman is where you misrepresent someone's argument, argue against the misrepresented version of that argument, and then declare his original argument defeated as a result of refuting the misrepresented version of his argument.

illgot's Avatar


illgot
03.27.2012 , 06:29 AM | #54
A) never run instance because your servers population is in the toilet

B) run instances when ever I wish and have unlimited chances at loot

I think I'll pick B, because I currently live with choice A and it sucks.

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
03.27.2012 , 06:32 AM | #55
Just to put some actual facts here.

Dungeon Finder was introduced in WoW at the very end of 2009. http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.3.0

Now if you look at subscription numbers, from that point on subscriptions actually increased! Dropping only once Cataclysm was released late 2010.
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

So as for a "community destroying" tool, it actually seemed to gain MORE players rather than losing any.

Huh. Well isn't that interesting.

DigitalPrime's Avatar


DigitalPrime
03.27.2012 , 06:38 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by chaosdefined View Post
Just to put some actual facts here.

Dungeon Finder was introduced in WoW at the very end of 2009. http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.3.0

Now if you look at subscription numbers, from that point on subscriptions actually increased! Dropping only once Cataclysm was released late 2010.
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

So as for a "community destroying" tool, it actually seemed to gain MORE players rather than losing any.

Huh. Well isn't that interesting.
community is not the amount of subs. but i guess this is the issue here. some know what a MMO community is and what it gives in games. While others see subs as numbers and more chance to keep the badge ratio up. either way, BW understand this point which is all that matters!

Reevax's Avatar


Reevax
03.27.2012 , 06:39 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by chaosdefined View Post
Just to put some actual facts here.

Dungeon Finder was introduced in WoW at the very end of 2009. http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_3.3.0

Now if you look at subscription numbers, from that point on subscriptions actually increased! Dropping only once Cataclysm was released late 2010.
http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-1.png

So as for a "community destroying" tool, it actually seemed to gain MORE players rather than losing any.

Huh. Well isn't that interesting.
The community thing is just a false banner people stick to because they don't have any real argument against the tool.

terminova's Avatar


terminova
03.27.2012 , 06:39 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Meldwyn View Post
You clearly have no clue what you are talking about.
My post
-----------
Your head



Quote:
Red herring? Please! If there are no issues with getting kicked, why bring it up?
I didn't bring it up, I was pointing out your error.


Quote:
You have no facts to back up anything you are saying, none!
More red herrings? Sorry, only good for fishing, and I'm not fishing.

Quote:
But let me quote Ghostcrawler from his Cataclysm post mortem for you...

"They liked the convenience of Dungeon Finder"

So, the players like the dungeon finder... hmmmm
No, they liked the convenience factor. For example, fast food is convenient, but most isn't actually good for you, so people who eat there like the convenience of the fast food, but not necessarily the drawbacks of eating fast food. Likewise, many players like the convenience a LFD system brings, but don't like the baggage and drawbacks that come with it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Toxen View Post
I support...wait, which thread is this? Sorry, I'm following a lot of flame wars at the moment. Uh, oh yeah, clicking!

I support clicking!

ferroz's Avatar


ferroz
03.27.2012 , 06:41 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by ConradLionhart View Post
I've played WoW since 2005. The community was much better before LFD. The minute people dared to take an item from a dungeon that they shouldn't take, they would be called out, a message sent to the guildmaster, and that person booted from the guild. Word spreads, and no one wants to bring a ninja to their runs. They pretty much have to re-roll.
No, several months before lfd someone used masterloot to snipe a mount off of a pug raid. People spammed general for weeks over it, told his guildmaster, etc

Nothing happened other than a few people put him on ignore. He kept running his pug raids and pug groups. Years later and he's still running pug raids on a regular basis and still in the same guild.

the idea that this sort of shunning actually does anything is a myth.

likewise: the top defiant guild on my server in rift was full of these sort of people; the GL didn't care at all, and there wasn't a week that went by without someone spamming general chat about one of them "ninjalooting" something from a group they were in.

Likewise for the girl who ninja'd* stuff off of someone's 10th coldain ring war: she was still guilded when I stopped playing EQ 4 or 5 years later. Same for a training/KSing dr00d that had been on the poms list for half a decade.

*and we're talking real ninjalooting, not this weak stuff folks like to call ninjalooting today: she stood over the corpse of a zonewide raid that she wasn't involved in and spam clicked to loot stuff off of the corpse when someone stood up to let the guy who was actually doing the quest loot.

Quote:
After LFD was introduced, a dps dared to take a tanking loot from me, and eventhough I asked him to wait, thinking that it was a mistake, he left the dungeon without saying a word, confirming that he KNEW it was wrong, but he did it because he could get away with it.
No, as I said above, this is something that was the case long before lfd was introduced; It certainly wasn't a change caused by LFD.

Quote:
And if that dps lost the roll for the tanking item of the first boss, he would bail from the dungeon because that was the only thing he wanted and he didn't want to honor the rest of the run. Why? Because he can just queue again anyway.
Ok... so, someone who only wants a specific item only stays for it, and lets someone else into the group who can potentially use something from the rest of the run, and it costs me nothing but a few seconds.

I'm not seeing the problem here. He benefits, it doesn't cost the rest of the group anything of note, and some other random player potentially benefits.

Quote:
You run with 4 people from the same guild. Before they start the boss, they votekick you because their guildie wants to come in. You can't do anything because, well, they are on another server.
I can log onto their server and say something to their GM. Of course, in more than 1000 lfd groups where I pugged solo, I've never run into this.

Quote:
Cross-server LFD encourages even more bad behavior due to the removal of consequences. You don't have to understand.
Of course we don't have to understand, since that's not a true statement.

chaosdefined's Avatar


chaosdefined
03.27.2012 , 06:43 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by DigitalPrime View Post
community is not the amount of subs. but i guess this is the issue here. some know what a MMO community is and what it gives in games. While others see subs as numbers and more chance to keep the badge ratio up. either way, BW understand this point which is all that matters!
Ha that's a great argument. "Community has nothing to do with facts, it can't be proved, it has to be believed!".

Wait what does this argument remind you of...

Also, again with the Badges, nobody else has ever mentioned wanting this, why do you keep adding it in?
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