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The Status Quo Has Been Restored

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The Status Quo Has Been Restored

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
03.25.2012 , 10:46 AM | #1
Well, for those that don't know, there was an author by the name of Karen Traviss who came into Star Wars a while back. She had a personal obsession with Mandalorians and an agenda to make them the best thing since Lucas invented the lightsaber.

She made them better fighters pound for pound than Jedi.
She made them have weapons and armor that the Jedi couldn't match.
She gave them the best starfighters in Star Wars.
She pretty much Mary Sue'd the entire Mandalorian culture.

Thankfully... For the franchise... The Mandalorians, in canon, have been returned to what they should have been thanks to FotJ.

1. She made them better fighters pound for pound than Jedi.

In the series Star Wars: Fate of the Jedi we saw numerous clashes between Jedi and Mandalorians. The Mandos always had a numerical advantage and the Mandos always suffered losses. While we saw dozens of Mandalorian deaths we saw a grand total of one Jedi death despite numerous attempts and ambushes. The one Jedi death was an untrained, unarmed, Jedi apprentice who was all of fifteen years old. This categorically reduced the claims of Mandos down to being just that... Claims.

2. She made them have weapons and armor that the Jedi couldn't match.

Not only did we see lightsabers easily go around Beskar in FotJ, by aiming for the less armored joints and such, but we also saw them go through Beskar after several whacks. This is good because it makes Mando Iron decent but no longer nigh indestructible and a couple of whacks with a lightsaber still means a dead Mando.

However to sweeten the pot we were shown that Jedi can use the Force to shatter Beskar. (Shown by Jacen Solo and Luke Skywalker in Troy Denning's part of LotF) but they can also use techniques to pass right through it as was shown by an unarmed Barv in the ambush the Mandalorians sprang on them in another installment of Denning's run on LotF.)

3. They had the best Starfighters.

In FotJ it was revealed that the Republic now has fighters that are pound for pound better than the new Mando ships. As stated in the novel they were able " to go head to head with them and come out on top."

The Mando culture in Star Wars is now back to where it should be. They are not on par with Jedi or Sith but are the best of the best when it comes to mercenaries. They fetch top credits and they perform admirably. They are guns for hire that are more than worth hiring when one needs it.

All in all with the final nail in the coffin we once again have Star Wars back to the normal status quo!
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
03.25.2012 , 10:52 AM | #2
Yeh the Fandalorian movement got smacked down and kicked a few times by Lucas anyway, this was only a matter of time before everything she did to them became irrelevant in the larger star wars universe.

Mandalorians didn't need to be OP and ridiculous, it just makes them seem unrealistic and hollow, the Jedi have always beaten them and the Sith have always manipulated them, they are an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe, they don't have to beat everyone and be better than everyone, they are great simply because of who they are, not how powerful.

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
03.25.2012 , 11:01 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Yeh the Fandalorian movement got smacked down and kicked a few times by Lucas anyway, this was only a matter of time before everything she did to them became irrelevant in the larger star wars universe.

Mandalorians didn't need to be OP and ridiculous, it just makes them seem unrealistic and hollow, the Jedi have always beaten them and the Sith have always manipulated them, they are an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe, they don't have to beat everyone and be better than everyone, they are great simply because of who they are, not how powerful.
Amen to that.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
I don't need luck, I've got ammo - Urdnot Grunt
Remember 4/22/2011. A day that shall live in infamy.

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
03.25.2012 , 11:01 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Yeh the Fandalorian movement got smacked down and kicked a few times by Lucas anyway, this was only a matter of time before everything she did to them became irrelevant in the larger star wars universe.

Mandalorians didn't need to be OP and ridiculous, it just makes them seem unrealistic and hollow, the Jedi have always beaten them and the Sith have always manipulated them, they are an awesome addition to the Star Wars universe, they don't have to beat everyone and be better than everyone, they are great simply because of who they are, not how powerful.
Agreed.

I like Mandalorians. I really hated what they were turned into. Now that they are back where they should be I feel like I can like Mandalorians again.

When you see a current, restored Mandalorian, fight toe to toe and nearly beat, or actually defeat, a Jedi it is awesome. That Mandalorian fought against incredible odds, faced an enemy who had every advantage, and through determination won. It is a great story.

It is what makes any story where a non-Sensitive beating a Force User actually rewarding. You have a normal guy, with no special powers, taking on a stronger force who has every advantage. When they win, or almost win, it is justified.

When you see a Mary Sue Mando beat a Jedi (Still very rare) it doesn't evoke the same feeling. It is kind of like a class in SWTOR beating a Jedi. It isn't an accomplishment.

It literally is:

"Okay, so you beat an enemy that you are equal in every way to, if not better than them in every way... That isn't impressive."

You really can't brag about beating someone that you were superior to in every conceivable way. It is like a Mary Sue Mando saying: "Oh yeah silly Jedi I beat you! I had armor that you couldn't cut through, weapons you couldn't defend against, special training that made me immune to all of your senses, and I had superior martial prowess on top of it all! I had every advantage over you and I won the fight!"

It is kind of expected.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
03.25.2012 , 11:10 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
Agreed.

I like Mandalorians. I really hated what they were turned into. Now that they are back where they should be I feel like I can like Mandalorians again.

When you see a current, restored Mandalorian, fight toe to toe and nearly beat, or actually defeat, a Jedi it is awesome. That Mandalorian fought against incredible odds, faced an enemy who had every advantage, and through determination won. It is a great story.

It is what makes any story where a non-Sensitive beating a Force User actually rewarding. You have a normal guy, with no special powers, taking on a stronger force who has every advantage. When they win, or almost win, it is justified.

When you see a Mary Sue Mando beat a Jedi (Still very rare) it doesn't evoke the same feeling. It is kind of like a class in SWTOR beating a Jedi. It isn't an accomplishment.

It literally is:

"Okay, so you beat an enemy that you are equal in every way to, if not better than them in every way... That isn't impressive."

You really can't brag about beating someone that you were superior to in every conceivable way. It is like a Mary Sue Mando saying: "Oh yeah silly Jedi I beat you! I had armor that you couldn't cut through, weapons you couldn't defend against, special training that made me immune to all of your senses, and I had superior martial prowess on top of it all! I had every advantage over you and I won the fight!"

It is kind of expected.
Precisely, I have loved Commander Jace Malcom ever since putting two(three?) Sith Marauders on their ### and then charging at a Sith Lord like he's nothing, then charging at the same guy that just kicked his ### again, going for a KO punch and detonating a Concussion Grenade in his face.

To quote Jenkins and Dr. Chakwas "That was awesome!"

Whenever I saw Traviss' Mandalorians doing anything of the sort I just /Yawn /Close.

Listerman's Avatar


Listerman
03.25.2012 , 11:11 AM | #6
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who saw Travis's handeling on the Mando's as a little too pandering.
I mean...It's only natural that Boba Fett was the one who could train Jayna on how to defeat her Sith Lord brother, right? I mean, come on.
"Never touch a Kel Dor's sammich."
"We're on a message board together. I'm already inclined to think you're a schmuck."

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
03.25.2012 , 11:13 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Listerman View Post
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who saw Travis's handeling on the Mando's as a little too pandering.
I mean...It's only natural that Boba Fett was the one who could train Jayna on how to defeat her Sith Lord brother, right? I mean, come on.
Yeh, because in Traviss' world Sith=Jedi.

When the canon has shown us that Sith lords can take far more grievous injuries and sustain a stronger offence than the Jedi can simply because they call upon the unnatural side of the Force.

Listerman's Avatar


Listerman
03.25.2012 , 11:19 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Yeh, because in Traviss' world Sith=Jedi.

When the canon has shown us that Sith lords can take far more grievous injuries and sustain a stronger offence than the Jedi can simply because they call upon the unnatural side of the Force.
I would say that is attributed to their use of anger and other base emotions to amplify themselves in battle. Who DOESN'T feel like they could rip phone books in half when royally pissed?

But anyway...Maybe Travis wanted to take the Jedi down a peg, but just wounded up committing the cardinal sin of writing- the Mary Sue Corallary enacted.
"Never touch a Kel Dor's sammich."
"We're on a message board together. I'm already inclined to think you're a schmuck."

Aximand's Avatar


Aximand
03.25.2012 , 11:31 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Listerman View Post
I would say that is attributed to their use of anger and other base emotions to amplify themselves in battle. Who DOESN'T feel like they could rip phone books in half when royally pissed?

But anyway...Maybe Travis wanted to take the Jedi down a peg, but just wounded up committing the cardinal sin of writing- the Mary Sue Corallary enacted.
The problem is that the Jedi never really needed to be taken down a peg. They're pretty much the punching bag of the Star Wars Galaxy as far as how often some form of genocide is committed against them or how disturbingly often some of their brightest stars go to the Dark Side.
I'm not mean, you're just a sissy.
The Orange Pixel is the REAL Sith Emperor
I don't need luck, I've got ammo - Urdnot Grunt
Remember 4/22/2011. A day that shall live in infamy.

Listerman's Avatar


Listerman
03.25.2012 , 11:34 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Aximand View Post
The problem is that the Jedi never really needed to be taken down a peg. They're pretty much the punching bag of the Star Wars Galaxy as far as how often some form of genocide is committed against them or how disturbingly often some of their brightest stars go to the Dark Side.
We live in an age where more than half of people would vie to be the bad guys if given the chance in video games. You're surprised an author decided to take the piss out of the boy scouts of Star Wars in lieu of the morally ambiguous bucketheads?
"Never touch a Kel Dor's sammich."
"We're on a message board together. I'm already inclined to think you're a schmuck."