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Question on DPS Rotation for Vigilance

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Question on DPS Rotation for Vigilance
 

icroyal's Avatar


icroyal
03.25.2012 , 09:31 AM | #1
So I see in most websites out there that discuss dps rotation when vigilance, they put blade storm way above master strike. I don't get it. Blade Storm uses focus whereas Master Strike does not. And Blade Storm seems to do less damage than Master Strike.

So I'm not getting the logic. Can anyone explain to me why Blade Storm is much more preferential than Master Strike?

SirSensi's Avatar


SirSensi
03.25.2012 , 09:39 AM | #2
Master Strike is channeled. It's all about mobility. In PvP, you really need the mobility rather than just standing there. If your opponet is cc'd/stunned then MS can come in handy, but not very often. I've seen Guardian videos where they don't even mention using MS at all because the lack of mobility. Master Strike comes in handy in PvE, but, for me, only when I'm fighting an Elite or a Champion mob.

Also, Blade Storm crits and Master Strike doesn't. It may be true that the numbers on the two abilites vary and it may seem tha Master Strike hits harder, but your gimping yourself especially in PvP.
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icroyal's Avatar


icroyal
03.25.2012 , 09:43 AM | #3
Makes sense. I wasn't considering the 3 sec channel which equates to about 1K per sec whereas blade storm you're getting more damage per second. Thanks for your reply.

bamsmacked's Avatar


bamsmacked
03.25.2012 , 01:25 PM | #4
Blade Storm is probably your hardest hitting attack considering it will crit 60%+ of the time with Force Rush, has a 10 meter range and it's a force attack so it's unblockable. This is why it's used more.

With Momentum taken in defense tree your blade storm will cost you nothing off a force leap which is fantastic, and assuming your using Shien like you should - with Victory Rush, Momentum and Solidifying Force from the Defense trees you can literally spam attacks endlessly and not have any focus issues -- but when you do simply pop Combat Focus and you're ready to go.

As far as Master Strike goes it's overall your best DPS. I use it quite often in PvP, with Freezing Force snaring opponents and 80% of the time people are to stupid to either interrupt MS or run out of melee range I get all 3 attacks in quite often.

Only the PvPers that don't know what they're doing opt out of using Ravage and Master Strike. If you take the talent with Zen Strike you can do INSANE amounts of damage because Overhead Slash and Plasma Brand will proc the CD allowing you to use it again.

Master Strike is bread and butter attack and should be use frequently, but smartly in your rotation for it does tons of damage and helps maintain focus cus it costs nothing.

My general attack rotation goes something like this > Throw Saber > Leap > Master Strike (depending on how stupid they are I may clip it after the first 2 attacks) > Sunder > Overhead Slash > Blade Storm > Plasma Brand > Stasis > Sunder > Force Sweep and pretty much repeat.

I do change it up a lot if I get a MS cool down after my OS and PB I immediately cast another MS and clip it after 2 strikes and then throw them in stasis.

I'm pretty amazed at how so many Vengeance and Vigilance builds fail at maximizing their DPS potential and a good chunk of them seem to think Ravage and MS aren't real viable in PvP.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
03.25.2012 , 02:21 PM | #5
Master Strike generally isn't used because it is a channeled attack, it plants you in place for 3 seconds.

In a boss fight, particularly one that likes area attacks or has Death from Aboves, Master Strike can actually get you killed.

Blade Storm, Overhead Strike, and Plasma Brand are all instant attacks they don't impair your mobility.

That's why Vigilence people often do not even have master strike in their usual rotation.

Is master strike useful in some situations, sure. However in all honesty there are times you can do more damage to a target using Plasma Brand (plasma brand's damage is backend with the DoTs that ignore damage reductions) and blade storm simply because they completely ignore standard shields.

Marqhill's Avatar


Marqhill
03.26.2012 , 01:02 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by bamsmacked View Post
Blade Storm is probably your hardest hitting attack considering it will crit 60%+ of the time with Force Rush, has a 10 meter range and it's a force attack so it's unblockable. This is why it's used more.

With Momentum taken in defense tree your blade storm will cost you nothing off a force leap which is fantastic, and assuming your using Shien like you should - with Victory Rush, Momentum and Solidifying Force from the Defense trees you can literally spam attacks endlessly and not have any focus issues -- but when you do simply pop Combat Focus and you're ready to go.

As far as Master Strike goes it's overall your best DPS. I use it quite often in PvP, with Freezing Force snaring opponents and 80% of the time people are to stupid to either interrupt MS or run out of melee range I get all 3 attacks in quite often.

Only the PvPers that don't know what they're doing opt out of using Ravage and Master Strike. If you take the talent with Zen Strike you can do INSANE amounts of damage because Overhead Slash and Plasma Brand will proc the CD allowing you to use it again.

Master Strike is bread and butter attack and should be use frequently, but smartly in your rotation for it does tons of damage and helps maintain focus cus it costs nothing.

My general attack rotation goes something like this > Throw Saber > Leap > Master Strike (depending on how stupid they are I may clip it after the first 2 attacks) > Sunder > Overhead Slash > Blade Storm > Plasma Brand > Stasis > Sunder > Force Sweep and pretty much repeat.

I do change it up a lot if I get a MS cool down after my OS and PB I immediately cast another MS and clip it after 2 strikes and then throw them in stasis.

I'm pretty amazed at how so many Vengeance and Vigilance builds fail at maximizing their DPS potential and a good chunk of them seem to think Ravage and MS aren't real viable in PvP.
Everything this guy said. Smart fella....

I used to be one of those people who felt that using Master Strike wasn't really viable in PvP because most smart people will just move out of the way when they see it happening. But that was actually my misunderstanding of the true mechanics behind the ability.

The biggest turn offs of the ability are the range and the channeling of it. The range seems to make the most sense because the ability says it has a 4M range but what a lot of people misunderstand is that the range of the ability is the range to trigger it and not the actual range of the ability itself. I've had people who were around 10 meters away AND behind me and they still got hit by all 3 hits of master strike. Additionally if you snare someone with Freezing Force then it is actually IMPOSSIBLE for them to use regular movement to get out of master strikes range. If you snare them and then begin Master Strike all 3 hits WILL hit the target unless you are stunned or the ability is interrupted.

As far as the channeling is concerned that's really not such a huge deal actually. It does give time for the ability to be interrupted but I've found that you're average player who isn't a Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior class doesn't seem to be smart enough to tell that an ability is being channeled at them and they don't seem to know to interrupt it unless they're using one of their stun cool downs. Also, in 1.2 enemies won't be able to interrupt it. This doesn't change the fact that you can stop channeling an ability whenever you choose to. All you have to do is move or do a different attack and it will stop. Just like Force Stasis/Choke.

I will usually use Master Strike immediately after a leap because even if I only land the first 2 hits that's usually about 3000 damage on its own. I also like to use it as a finisher because the first 2 hits of master strike do a huge amount of damage and last for the exact duration of a single global cool down. So I'll usually do the first two hits to put a target well under 20% health and then Dispatch. If I've got a Force Rush proc going then even better. Very few targets can actually survive that. Actually, almost no one survives that.

I'm a firm believer in Zen Strike now and it's actually getting even better in 1.2. Zen Strike is great because I get a 30% chance to reset the cool down of master strike for using abilities that I use all the damn time anyway. Some times I'll open a rotation with Master strike then use Sundering Strike, Plasma Brand, Blade Storm and Overhead Slash and more often than not Master Strike will have reset it's cool down and my target will be almost dead. At which point I open up again with Master Strike for the first 2 hits and then Dispatch instead of waiting for the final hit to land. If I do this exactly right then I should still have a Force Rush Proc going which makes my dispatch auto crit. In 1.2 whenever you get a Zen Strike proc it will automatically give you 2 focus. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. One of the main problems with the rotation that I just stated is that many times I will get to the point where I want to dispatch but I only have exactly 2 focus left. It's really REALLY annoying. But with this new buff in 1.2 then there's a really good chance that we will have exactly the amount of focus we need to throw out that dispatch immediately without having to use an extra focus generating attack.

If you don't currently use Master Strike in PvP you should strongly consider practicing with it now if you're a Vigilance Guardian. We can reduce the cool down so that you'll be getting master strike available to you almost twice as often as any other skill tree, we have abilities that make using it actually generate focus. It will be uninterruptible come 1.2 and we will have easy access to a skill that makes it do 8% more damage on the bottom tier of the focus skill tree for 2 points. It's becoming insanely better as of 1.2 and I think people should really get used to using it now.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
03.26.2012 , 01:50 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by icroyal View Post
So I see in most websites out there that discuss dps rotation when vigilance, they put blade storm way above master strike. I don't get it. Blade Storm uses focus whereas Master Strike does not. And Blade Storm seems to do less damage than Master Strike.

So I'm not getting the logic. Can anyone explain to me why Blade Storm is much more preferential than Master Strike?
It's because of force rush giving BS a +60% crit. You will essentially crit with BS everytime due to that talent combined with your own crit %.

MS's dps is actually really good if you only do the first two hits and then self interrupt it. The first two hits are pretty much instant. I use it that way in pve and pvp all the time.

CapuchinSeven's Avatar


CapuchinSeven
03.26.2012 , 03:12 AM | #8
Anyone telling you not to use, or not mentioning Master Strike in PVP doesn't know what they are talking about.
I know chop-knees.

SirSensi's Avatar


SirSensi
03.26.2012 , 11:01 AM | #9
In 1v1 situations, I can fully see how MS is viable. Unless my target is stunned/slept/knocked down I dont even consider using it. And 1v1 is a rarity on my server in WZ's, esp for me since most of the Imps seem to notice that I am using my utility (Freezing Force, Challenging Call, Taunt, Stasis, and Awe) against them and I usually have a healer under Guard. They have seemed to wise up and I end up being ff upon. So my rotation includes Saber Throw > Leap > Sunder > OS > BS > PB (I will switch that up between OS, BS, PB depending on focus and if my target is dead or GCD) also hitting my utility and annoying the s**t outta the crowd.

I will use MS if the situation calls for it, but mainly being ff which in an odd sense helps my team (if 4+ enemies are on me, then thats 4 less attempting to thwart my teams advances), most of the time though the situation doesn't call for it since I have to stay mobile 99% of the match. I will give it a shot the next time the opportunity arises.
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VoidJustice's Avatar


VoidJustice
03.26.2012 , 11:22 AM | #10
Honestly Master Strike is Meh in Pvp. You can get it off easily as long as you use it in "suprise" or CC'd targets. It's great if another Jedi has the kungfu grip goin!

However, being rooted is bad mmmkay...

I don't know about bladestorm being my hardest hitter. Overhead crits and dispatch bring much much much much more facepain on crits. I'd say bladestorm is like 3rd with an * for consistency.

also guys... better start practicing your cyclone sweeps... gonna be wai more important in 1.2. to follow up sweep.

+ hey buku bonus style points for massive overhead crits when you actually jump over the guys head. <3 overhead. Overhead = buku gosu...