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George Zoeller: PVP vs PVE Balance

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
George Zoeller: PVP vs PVE Balance

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
03.24.2012 , 05:06 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Dee-Jay View Post
Having abilities work differently in PvP and PvE is a "last resort" solution and should be avoided wherever possible.

It's poor game-design.
That's your opinion.

Achromatis's Avatar


Achromatis
03.24.2012 , 07:08 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
My data comes from proprietary analysis software my group developed during our pro MTG years, it's not useable by anyone without a post-graduate mathematics background. We don't show our software to non-members, and we're all currently in retirement. If we do start up again, that may change.

And the coding absolutely does work that way. Taunt generates aggro in PVE. In PVP it provides a damage debuff. The game can flag abilities to not affect players already, it would be easy to make a debuff that did not affect players, so as to make our PVE damage higher without impacting PVP
What data?
Not Meant to Be a Factual Statement

The plural of anecdote is not data

Michaelphoenix's Avatar


Michaelphoenix
03.24.2012 , 10:48 PM | #13
i smell a load of bull here... and i grew up on a farm...i KNOW what bull c**p smells like
Collector's Edition VIP Key Holder (has the joke gotten old yet?)

Dayfax's Avatar


Dayfax
03.24.2012 , 10:56 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by subrosian View Post
My data comes from proprietary analysis software my group developed during our pro MTG years, it's not useable by anyone without a post-graduate mathematics background. We don't show our software to non-members, and we're all currently in retirement. If we do start up again, that may change.

And the coding absolutely does work that way. Taunt generates aggro in PVE. In PVP it provides a damage debuff. The game can flag abilities to not affect players already, it would be easy to make a debuff that did not affect players, so as to make our PVE damage higher without impacting PVP
Oh wow. Come on. This post just reeks of so much Bantha poodoo.

Nobody is asking for access to your vaunted "proprietary software." They just want to see your numbers. Any numbers. So post them to Google docs.

In other words: Put up or shut up.
"Sounds like you could use a soldier."

Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
03.28.2012 , 11:06 PM | #15
I too am of the point of view that the stealth mechanics are at the root of the problem. Even if one considers the PvP area only.

In PvP it is extremely difficult to counter stealthed enemies. It would be easier if the BH/Trooper's stealth scan were themselves stealthed. But as is, the stealthy toon simply waits out the scan or goes around it. The power and lack of countermeasures to stealth are the direct reason why combat post stealth got nerfed. If there was some risk to stealth one could justify higher post stealth combat damage. For example - if toons in stealth had a debuff (for ex. all damage taken increased by 10% while in stealth and for 6 sec afterwards), I think it would be entirely reasonable to increase their post stealth damage attacks by 10% - again IF there was a reasonable chance they could be detected.

Xodibsi's Avatar


Xodibsi
04.09.2012 , 04:12 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Dee-Jay View Post
Having abilities work differently in PvP and PvE is a "last resort" solution and should be avoided wherever possible.

It's poor game-design.
funny because guild wars seemed to make this work flawlessly. you must be ignorant to not see the benefits in auto changing skills to be PVP only.
PvE Oriented Family Centered Guild

Fallenturtle's Avatar


Fallenturtle
04.09.2012 , 05:07 PM | #17
The data comes from 50s who are actually on the pts right now in comparable gear doing combat logs and then uploading them into programs that calculates DPS... It's like recount for you people who've played wow.


this data showing optimal and near perfect rotations are the basis for all this data. There was a list of the dps compared to all the other classes and Ahnil marauders were at 1500 where as lethality/concealment operatives were at 1200-1250 with Deception sins being the lowest at 1150

Marak's Avatar


Marak
04.09.2012 , 08:14 PM | #18
According to a guild that has been raiding on the PTS for awhile now (http://ambient.enjin.com/home/m/2994108/article/669668), the OP is correct. Operatives are roughly 20% behind Maras and that is on a stationary dummy. Maras are even better on movement due to them having gap closers.

Fallenturtle's Avatar


Fallenturtle
04.09.2012 , 08:59 PM | #19
I think what ticks the community off as a whole, is the fact that even tho these numbers are being brought to the attention of the developers, they have put up a basic "LTP NOOB" attitude..

For example, at PAX EAST just this past weekend, this was a response from one of the developers regarding the change to backstab, the operatives primary behind the target move.

In 1.2, the backstab cooldown from 9s to 12s - will you buff the damage to compensate for time? ANSWER: The new trees are very close to other trees and are able to competivite DPS. A lot of the changes in the tree are shuffled around, and the end results are very comprable to what we had before.


What we are seeing with these dps logs from Ambient *a guild that has cleared all the nightmare content currently*, and what they are telling us is not matching up.

Your a raid leader, and you have 4 dps slots, based on that list, who brings the most to the raid in terms of utility and damage and you had to pick 2 ranged and 2 melee..

Here's the data for those too lazy to go to the website.
Annhilation Marauder ~1500

Madness Sorcerer ~1400
Vengeance Juggernaut ~1350
_ Powertech ~1350

Marksman Sniper ~1300

Mercenary ~1250 (increases notably with the number of mercs in raid)
Madness Assassin ~1250

Lethality Sniper ~1200
Lighning sorcerer ~1200
Lethality Operative ~1200

Deception Assassin ~1150

Xaearth's Avatar


Xaearth
04.09.2012 , 09:01 PM | #20
Buh buh buh...

All those numbers don't take into consideration the underlying changes!
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