Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Debunking The Myth About Assassins: One Troll At A Time

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Debunking The Myth About Assassins: One Troll At A Time

Faeldawn's Avatar


Faeldawn
03.24.2012 , 03:34 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Halofax View Post
Deception is terrible in World PVP because you can be killed in 2 stuns.
World pvp is rare these days, it's almost all warzone play now.

Killed in 2 stuns? You do realise we have access to class mitigation abilities such as Force Shroud and Deflection and we have Unbreakable Will if it's up, a CC breaker same as any other class as well as a vanish ability.

I guess it's possible to die in 4 hits to some lucky chain of big crits, but it's hardly a reason to debunk a specific spec as that could equally happen to most classes.

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
03.26.2012 , 09:59 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Anelyn View Post
That is terrible wrong. You are not an operative to require stealth or be in a disadvantageous position. You are always controlling the fight. You can turn a 1vs2 into 1v1 very easily. You can kill tanks and healers alike.
You are probably correct. I just found Madness to be Madness when attempting to pvp and play as one. I have yet to run into a really good Madness PVP partner. You have to admit that Death field is extremely clunky and with the speed and constant movement required in pvp Death Field is a great opener, but becomes more difficult to pull off.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
03.26.2012 , 10:04 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by verfallen View Post
Great post OP.

However I disagree about deception ressource mechanic issue.

You effectively get blackout to boist your regen every 45 sec, and unless you maul out of the proc, you can sustain your rotation for quite a while.

Obviously, from 15-sec onward of a fight, both Dark Embrace are down. But you still get back force when Surging Charge proc, and most fight are over or nearly. Imo, there are MANY class that are WAY more ressource starved faster than assassin.

Its main PvE limitation comes imo, that you are forced to use khem as a companion since you need a backstab position ready for when exploit weakness procs and you really cannot take even the slightest beating.

You may disagree, but compared to Madness and Darkness. Our Energy Recovery has to be micro managed especially in extended fights. VSx2 to shock with a force slow to prevent a runner combined with a maul than remembering to pool your energy so you don't lose it all when you have to stun.

In PVE, it's a little easier because you can use a base rotation and use Blackout on CD.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

mrHaterade's Avatar


mrHaterade
03.26.2012 , 11:02 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by DGolubets View Post
Do you know that it's usable only from stealth in 2 other specs? You basically say that the "right" way is to not use it at all.
Haha, yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe he thinks you should vanish mid fight to use Spike.

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
03.26.2012 , 11:17 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by mrHaterade View Post
Haha, yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe he thinks you should vanish mid fight to use Spike.
Yeah, I agree, vanishing mid fight to respike is a bad idea unless it's World PvP. It's best to save Force Cloak for escaping.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
03.26.2012 , 11:50 AM | #16
Spike should never be used unless it's against a Merc Healer or to knock someone off somewhere. You're using 30 Force + 1 GCD to make the enemy lose 1 GCD and give him half a bar of resolve. It doesn't matter what spec you're in, this is a deal that makes using Maul at 50 Force look good unless the stun/knockback somehow eliminated the enemy (i.e. you knocked him into a fire pit).

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
03.26.2012 , 12:14 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Astarica View Post
Spike should never be used unless it's against a Merc Healer or to knock someone off somewhere. You're using 30 Force + 1 GCD to make the enemy lose 1 GCD and give him half a bar of resolve. It doesn't matter what spec you're in, this is a deal that makes using Maul at 50 Force look good unless the stun/knockback somehow eliminated the enemy (i.e. you knocked him into a fire pit).
I never thought about the last part. I generally only spike to stop a healer if I have nothing else up. or I will Cloak - spike if I am being chased.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
03.26.2012 , 01:20 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
You may disagree, but compared to Madness and Darkness. Our Energy Recovery has to be micro managed especially in extended fights. VSx2 to shock with a force slow to prevent a runner combined with a maul than remembering to pool your energy so you don't lose it all when you have to stun.

In PVE, it's a little easier because you can use a base rotation and use Blackout on CD.
I cannot comment compared to Madness, but darkness casting full cost shock very often makes it more force starved than Deception in short fight, and I think we can agree if the fight draw on, Deception is in trouble via survivability before being in trouble via force.

Other than a base force regen boost and a small +2 on shielding/sec which Surging Charge more than match, you have much more tools to keep it up than Darkness does.

I find myself using saber strike a lot more in Darkness than I did in Deception. Not arguing that the managing is more complex, but its very doable, and atuned to the spec, in term of being short big burst of regen at the start of the fight.

darkenwolf's Avatar


darkenwolf
03.26.2012 , 02:24 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post
You are probably correct. I just found Madness to be Madness when attempting to pvp and play as one. I have yet to run into a really good Madness PVP partner. You have to admit that Death field is extremely clunky and with the speed and constant movement required in pvp Death Field is a great opener, but becomes more difficult to pull off.
While I'm the first one to plug hate on the Deathmark/DF force regen mechanic for Madness, DF is not as hard to use mid-combat as you claim but it DOES take quite a bit of practice to fire off as quickly as possible.

I'm not surprised you haven't run into a good Madness PvP partner: it's a very difficult spec to play well and requires a lot of thinking outside the box and shifting priority/utility within the flow of the fight.
Sehkti
-Prophecy of the Five - formerly of Anchorhead
-50 Assassin | Madness (Hybrid) | Armory

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
03.26.2012 , 02:38 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by verfallen View Post
I cannot comment compared to Madness, but darkness casting full cost shock very often makes it more force starved than Deception in short fight, and I think we can agree if the fight draw on, Deception is in trouble via survivability before being in trouble via force.

Other than a base force regen boost and a small +2 on shielding/sec which Surging Charge more than match, you have much more tools to keep it up than Darkness does.

I find myself using saber strike a lot more in Darkness than I did in Deception. Not arguing that the managing is more complex, but its very doable, and atuned to the spec, in term of being short big burst of regen at the start of the fight.
How are you force starving as Darkness? it's Whither/shock- Force lightning when HD is up. You shouldn't really be thrashing, and Discharge on CD. Since Shock is not spammable and FL is still the most efficient usage of your energy as it recovers whatever you lost while it's channeling. You should almost never run out of energy. Granted the occassional Saber strike is needed, but if you stick to the 1, 2, 3, FL. You should be okay.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)