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Debunking The Myth About Assassins: One Troll At A Time

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Debunking The Myth About Assassins: One Troll At A Time

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
03.23.2012 , 11:40 AM | #1
Let's do a basic rundown here just so people who want to roll deception or madness can get a better idea than listening to the trolling nutcases that post on here.

None of the trees are broken. They all play exactly as intended, though the survivability of Deception and Madness are a bit off, but it's nowhere near as horrible as Sniper/Slinger. The Darkness Assassin does not do more dps than the madness or the Deception. It is simply a simpler rotation with the ability to survive a lot more while having Guard (hands down a free heal, multiple taunts, and self heals). It does significantly less dps. If you don't believe me square off against a Madness or deception without using heals or Defensive cooldowns, and watch how fast they drop you. You will take 20 percent of their health before they drop you like a rock. If it's a dps race you will lose.

The only reason Madness deals out more damage (KEY WORD) is due to the fact that they will live significantly longer due to Defensive CD's, Self Heals, and Better Armor.

Here is the most basic rundown of the trees.

1. Darkness
Upside: Decent DPS, Great survivability, solid control capabilities, and amazing self heals. The fact that you stay alive longer means you can deal out more total damage. Please remember total damage has nothing to do with pvp capability as it has everything to do with situation, job requirements, and how long you live. It has nothing to do with your ability to dish out damage. PLEASE STOP CONFUSING DAMAGE WITH DPS.

Downside - Everyone hates you and because of the ability to wear dps gear to maximize potential of the tree BW has decided to go CRAZY on pvp gear to prevent tanks from being able to tank and kill someone 1v1.

2. Deception -
Upside: Great Burst - can blow through any healer/sniper/ranged damage dealer within a few seconds. Their initial burst and ability to blow push a healer is really amazing if played right. They really need a shorter cooldown on Force Cloak, and it would be nice to have a self heal. In a good team, a Deception Assassin can move around and blow up healers and take out ranged with ease. In pve they have great burst for rage timers.

Downside: Poor Survivability, broken stealth mechanic, lower end sustainable dps for pve, and absolutely awful control. For a class built on burst, the biggest issue is that half the time you have to run away from people if you can't drop them within the first 5-7 seconds of the fight. Their ability to control someone in combat is so bad that once your deception assassin gets jumped it's best to let them die rather than attempt to heal them. Outside of Open World PVP and solid team play this tree is ridiculously tough to maintain. It's poor energy mechanics make it a solid last place in pve viability.

3. Madness
Upside: Great dps, fantastic pve sustainable dps, decent self heals, and insta-whirlwind. This class can punish any class that it decides to jump on. Death field combined with insta whirlwind make this class very good. The dots are relatively strong while adding a strong burst when needed. It's ability to control while punishing makes this a strong dps class for those in pvp who wish to push an opposing player.

Downside: Complicated rotation, low end survivability, extended ramp up time to burst. The key here is that you have to control the fight. The biggest problem with the Madness tree is no ability to survive if you don't start the fight. The complicated rotation, and clunky deathfield mechanics make this a very tough tree to play. It's not as bad as people say, but it's not fantastic.


TLDR version: Darkness is just so much more simpler to play combined with a higher survivability and more team orientated bonuses without a significant dps loss if geared correctly. The other trees are not broken though Deception can use some love. Darkness is just so much smoother, easier, and you can live long enough to feel like you accomplish something. In essence, Deception for hit and run, Madness for dps, and Darkness for epeen.

Too much focus on total damage/heals = ridiculously short sighted and moronic statements such as DECEPTION TREE SUCKS AND NO ONE CARES. No the problem is your focus and playstyle do not lend itself to the that tree. Personally the only tree I don't like is Madness because it's ugly and clunky. I hate death field with a passion!
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

drummerinthesun's Avatar


drummerinthesun
03.23.2012 , 01:11 PM | #2
Great post. Very thought out and hopefully a lot of people can learn from this information. I've played deception through to 50 and have never had any problems with it. You nailed it. It's a hit a run spec. Pick your fight, drop the guy, and move on to the next opportunity. Deception shouldn't be running rampant in the middle of the pit. Stick to the outside and pick on the healers and ranged dps.
Darkness Assassin - Cai'us, The Shadowlands
Vengeance Juggernaut- Ca'ius, The Shadowlands
Pandamonium

Cubertt's Avatar


Cubertt
03.23.2012 , 03:32 PM | #3
well put i agree with pretty much everything u say,

my one qualm is that our best spec is the easiest one. ive been tank the last few weeks chekin out the greener grass, and honestly im gettin bored fast of tank spec, while balance and infil to me are super fun.

im happy with our class over all we have 1 viable possible OP spec in tank, then the other 2 are both semi-viable if you need their respective roles (burster and true dpser). much better then some others from what ive seen. at least all 3 are usable in pvp.

well put buddy hopfully this will stop some of the false info and trolling, but knowing forums in general it is doubtful.

Halofax's Avatar


Halofax
03.24.2012 , 07:28 AM | #4
Deception is terrible in World PVP because you can be killed in 2 stuns.

Anelyn's Avatar


Anelyn
03.24.2012 , 09:19 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by TheOpf View Post

Downside: Complicated rotation, low end survivability, extended ramp up time to burst. The key here is that you have to control the fight. The biggest problem with the Madness tree is no ability to survive if you don't start the fight. The complicated rotation, and clunky deathfield mechanics make this a very tough tree to play. It's not as bad as people say, but it's not fantastic.
That is terrible wrong. You are not an operative to require stealth or be in a disadvantageous position. You are always controlling the fight. You can turn a 1vs2 into 1v1 very easily. You can kill tanks and healers alike.

jbuschell's Avatar


jbuschell
03.24.2012 , 11:14 AM | #6
I love balance/madness, I love the control,the dmg just keeps rolling, it may not be darkness/kc, well that's just a matter of opinion as I prefer it easily over tank spec, but to me balance is a awesome spec
E-Thuggin since 1987

Zanxscarce's Avatar


Zanxscarce
03.24.2012 , 11:48 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Halofax View Post
Deception is terrible in World PVP because you can be killed in 2 stuns.
No it doesn't, don't post ignorant things that'll drive people from trying the Deception tree.

A geared Deception sin in the hands of a good player beats both the other trees 1v1. They drop your health to 50% before you even get up from their spike. Then they have their ramp burst combo off when you finally get up, but are still stunned due to electrocute.

If you're trying the DEC tree, stick with it. Trust me, once your'e geared, and you start seeing chain shocks crit for 2.5- 3.5 dmg, you'll smile. In the meantime, its true that you will have survive-ability problems while your grouped fighiting in WZs
- Zanxscarce - Sith Meditation Sphere *sigh* -

wazpinator's Avatar


wazpinator
03.24.2012 , 11:53 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Zanxscarce View Post
No it doesn't, don't post ignorant things that'll drive people from trying the Deception tree.

A geared Deception sin in the hands of a good player beats both the other trees 1v1. They drop your health to 50% before you even get up from their spike. Then they have their ramp burst combo off when you finally get up, but are still stunned due to electrocute.

If you're trying the DEC tree, stick with it. Trust me, once your'e geared, and you start seeing chain shocks crit for 2.5- 3.5 dmg, you'll smile. In the meantime, its true that you will have survive-ability problems while your grouped fighiting in WZs
if you're spiking as an opener you're doing it wrong IMO.

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
03.24.2012 , 12:12 PM | #9
Great post OP.

However I disagree about deception ressource mechanic issue.

You effectively get blackout to boist your regen every 45 sec, and unless you maul out of the proc, you can sustain your rotation for quite a while.

Obviously, from 15-sec onward of a fight, both Dark Embrace are down. But you still get back force when Surging Charge proc, and most fight are over or nearly. Imo, there are MANY class that are WAY more ressource starved faster than assassin.

Its main PvE limitation comes imo, that you are forced to use khem as a companion since you need a backstab position ready for when exploit weakness procs and you really cannot take even the slightest beating.

DGolubets's Avatar


DGolubets
03.24.2012 , 03:11 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by wazpinator View Post
if you're spiking as an opener you're doing it wrong IMO.
Do you know that it's usable only from stealth in 2 other specs? You basically say that the "right" way is to not use it at all.