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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?

Suaine's Avatar


Suaine
03.23.2012 , 01:31 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Ok, I do find the need to play Devil's Advocate here for a moment. The fact that SSRs/SGRs weren't in the game at launch isn't anti-LGBT, imo. This is Star Wars. The ONLY referrences to SGRs I've ever seen in Star Wars, and the only two in existence, to the best of my knowledge, are in KotOR and KotOR II. Juhani in KotOR with a non-canon Female Revan, and Luxa in KotOR II with a female Exile. That one is just a suggestion, however. As to the KotOR Juhani/Female Revan, it's just one convo and nothing comes of it.

From some reports, Lucas himself is not a fan of the idea. Ok, that's his choice. But since Star Wars is HIS IP, it will probably have consequences here. I'm hoping he loosens up a bit, though.
Let's unpack this for a moment.

The fact that SGRAs were not in at launch was not a deliberate move to discriminate. It was, however, a deliberate choice to value SGRAs less than OGRAs. OGRAs were either done first, or placed higher in the queue of things that needed to be done at launch. That's by no means the same as someone choosing to discriminate, but it is a lovely example of how the system oppresses minority groups without any one person ever needing to have a homophobic thought in their head. Intent doesn't even come into it.

Karen Traviss' work was already mentioned and whether or not you like her novels or agree with what she's added to the universe, her books and the relationship between Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur are considered canon. They are both in the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. They are as canon as any other non-Lucas, non-TV source.

And please, could you or anyone repeating that rumor, link to anything regarding George Lucas' thoughts on gay relationships in his EU? The man is fairly hands-off when it comes to the whole EU anyway, so why would he care about this either way? Aside from the fact that he's given money to a campaign for marriage equality, which rather puts him in the potential "pro" coloumn.
We have to create the future, or others will do it for us. We have to care for one another, because if we don't, who will?
~ Susan Ivanova, Anla-shok Na, space bisexual

CatoSolo's Avatar


CatoSolo
03.23.2012 , 01:33 PM | #22
Any how, three small examples of this can show that LGBT was at least in the Star Wars cannon at times, and if I am not mistaken, I think you can use SGR with your legacy options right? Anyways, I have searched about this, and appearenly the FRC is trying to stop BW, which I know won't work out for the FRC. What ever the put in later adds to the rating of the game, so that will be included as why for the rating, so parents at least know. I am just happy it is being added in the first place, and I can wait for it, by playing my two characters I have now to 50, and then all my other characters will wait til it is added, as simple as that.
One day, the Sing lagacy may be mine, my firat thought of a legacy name was skywalker, but I know how fast that will be taken

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
03.23.2012 , 02:11 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
I haven't read anything written by Stephanie Meyer, either, but I certainly get the point that you don't like her work.
Twilight. 'Nuff said.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
03.23.2012 , 02:19 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Suaine View Post
Let's unpack this for a moment.

The fact that SGRAs were not in at launch was not a deliberate move to discriminate. It was, however, a deliberate choice to value SGRAs less than OGRAs. OGRAs were either done first, or placed higher in the queue of things that needed to be done at launch. That's by no means the same as someone choosing to discriminate, but it is a lovely example of how the system oppresses minority groups without any one person ever needing to have a homophobic thought in their head. Intent doesn't even come into it.

Karen Traviss' work was already mentioned and whether or not you like her novels or agree with what she's added to the universe, her books and the relationship between Goran Beviin and Medrit Vasur are considered canon. They are both in the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. They are as canon as any other non-Lucas, non-TV source.

And please, could you or anyone repeating that rumor, link to anything regarding George Lucas' thoughts on gay relationships in his EU? The man is fairly hands-off when it comes to the whole EU anyway, so why would he care about this either way? Aside from the fact that he's given money to a campaign for marriage equality, which rather puts him in the potential "pro" coloumn.
Wish I could find something concrete one way or another as to Lucas's views on it. I said "SOME" reports. Yes, I'm speculating as to why it hasn't happened yet. In case you didn't notice, I was playing devil's advocate up there.

And as far as Karen Traviss is concerned, I hope George DOES retcon her garbage. I dislike her quite a bit for her Mandalorian pacifists, but mostly because she killed Mara Jade for no good reason other than she felt like it. I can imagine that quite a few ExU authors who were writing books with Mara as a character had to scrap her from their work if it took place AFTER Karen killed her off. Seriously, that's just messed up.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

akinra's Avatar


akinra
03.23.2012 , 02:26 PM | #25
i applaud Bio for putting in SSR's, can't wait! Thats all Ihave to say. Kudos for the inclusion.

needagasmask's Avatar


needagasmask
03.23.2012 , 02:38 PM | #26
Without any concrete proof on whether LucasArts, Bioware, or EA said "No SGRAs until after launch" for any personal reasons other than time or money constraints, can we move this topic in another direction, please? This topic's been brushed over a thousand times in previous threads.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
03.23.2012 , 02:38 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Twilight. 'Nuff said.
Oh, I know who she is. I've just never read any of her work.


Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
And as far as Karen Traviss is concerned, I hope George DOES retcon her garbage. I dislike her quite a bit for her Mandalorian pacifists, but mostly because she killed Mara Jade for no good reason other than she felt like it.
Okay, do you mean 'pacifists' or 'non-combatants'? Either way there's space for either in a warrior society. As for Mara Jade, well, sometimes people die and sometimes it doesn't make much sense. Admittedly I'm speaking from a position of someone who hasn't read the books, but when a popular character dies there's always some who won't like why or how.

Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
I can imagine that quite a few ExU authors who were writing books with Mara as a character had to scrap her from their work if it took place AFTER Karen killed her off. Seriously, that's just messed up.
Again, that just happens sometimes. Bad timing, perhaps, but that's the nature of multiple authors working independently on official material (even EU material).
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
03.23.2012 , 02:40 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by needagasmask View Post
Without any concrete proof on whether LucasArts, Bioware, or EA said "No SGRAs until after launch" for any personal reasons other than time or money constraints, can we move this topic in another direction, please?
I agree. Discussing the whys and what ifs certainly does pass the time but it's not getting us anywhere. For my part I think we need to accept that Bioware might actually be (gasp!) telling the truth when they say 'time and budget constraints'. Whether we agree with their decisions of what to leave out or not, it's nothing that can be changed now.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
03.23.2012 , 02:46 PM | #29
Not non-combatants. Pacifists. That goes against everything already established in canon regarding Mandalorians. They are warriors. Plain and simple. Trained from early childhood to fight. I would compare them to the ancient Spartans, as far as discipline and military doctrine. There was no room for pacifists in Spartan society, and the same can be said for the Mandalorians. That is why Karen Traviss basically gives quite a few of us Star Wars fans a headache. lol
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

needagasmask's Avatar


needagasmask
03.23.2012 , 02:48 PM | #30
On that vein, we each have our own characters in each class we think would be a great s/s pairing, but what do you think would be a good new addition to your crew if they decide to add crewmembers that are made with SGR content?