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So the deception assasin spec is working ok?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
So the deception assasin spec is working ok?

TheOpf's Avatar


TheOpf
03.22.2012 , 04:50 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Metajedi View Post

Deception is a tough break in objective based pvp. it kills people just fine...its surviving thats the problem. Once you break stealth you best kill your target fast and get out of there.

For this reason the best way to play this spec is to choose your targets wisely, make use of oppertunity, recognize that you hit like a truck but are made of wet paper towel. In my brief stint into infiltration ( ultimately I found that balance works better in pvp for me ) I survived by taking out weakened targets and healers.

voidstar was probably the worse WZ for this spec, and alderaan is probably the best

This!!!

Deception is fine as a damage spec if played like it's designed to be played. The damage/output is fine. Darkness and Madness have better survivability so their total damage over the course of an Op is going to be higher. However, their dps output is not quite as high as the deception.

If you are losing to a Scoundrel/Op as a deception than you are getting caught in the open and exposed. Your job is to stealth around find a target, kill it, and get out. The biggest issue with so many Deception pvpers is they think they are Knight/Warriors with the ability to stealth. You don't jump into the fray. You take the outskirts and blow someone up and then vanish away.

If you want to go toe to toe once visible than go Darkness, Madness, or reroll as a warrior.
The Bounty Hunter AP Guide: Always Learning -Vanguard Tactics Guide: Where is my PG Slow?
Anam Ithieor- 50 AP Powertech
Anbas Ithieor- 20 Operative (lethality/healer)

Anelyn's Avatar


Anelyn
03.22.2012 , 05:36 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Nwalmaer View Post
Pretty sure Im playing the class right. And if you are doing 400k in a warzone you are in a premade being gaurded with heals or playing against undergeared players. Assasins on average crit for no more than 3.5k, where as scoundrels and ops are hitting for 4.5k to 5.5k on average. I would like to know what servers you guys are on doing all this damage in deception spec.
Or you're pulling 600-700k as balance without pocket healer or premade? Try it.

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
03.22.2012 , 05:45 PM | #13
The 'pick your battle' thing is really just an excuse. If you got 5 enemies in the middle of Alderran or 5 guys coming to a door in Voidstar, you don't get to 'pick your battle'. You've to fight those 5 guys and you don't get to leave that battle unless you count dying as a way of disengagement. Note that since the Darkness Assassin is a hard counter to every form of stealth cap tactic (including the mirror match) you can't expect to contribute elsewhere with your stealth either unless you think the enemy has no Darkness Assassin defending their node (he will be stealthed, so he will always have the jump on you because you must unstealth to cap).

spond's Avatar


spond
03.22.2012 , 06:03 PM | #14
Honestly, I understand the OP's point. I believe the issue rests solely on the way armor treats force damage vs physical damage.

Deception Assassins don't have a lot of "force" damage abilities; so, if you run up against a player with competent armor, life will get rough.

It's not the Dec spec itself, it's just how the game mechanics work.

Now, if they change some of the mechanics in 1.2; such as adjusting the way tech and force damage is mitigated by armor, things will get better. However, if Dec Assassins keep trying to take on 2 players at a time or running around like a tank, they will still die quick.

I find my spec to be of great use during flashpoints. There are sections we just blow by because I along with another Assassin can deal with objectives without causing a lot of alarm.

Constricted Warzones are not a friendly place for squishy toons with our specs. However, large open world areas are great for our spec. We can roam around and choose our targets. We can cc a companion before we burn down a player without worrying too much. If things go wrong we can sprint and cloak.

This is not a warzone class. Sucks,

Astarica's Avatar


Astarica
03.22.2012 , 06:28 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by spond View Post
Honestly, I understand the OP's point. I believe the issue rests solely on the way armor treats force damage vs physical damage.

Deception Assassins don't have a lot of "force" damage abilities; so, if you run up against a player with competent armor, life will get rough.
Force damage is generally mitigated by armor. Very few classes have elemental/internal attacks that does significant damage.

deags's Avatar


deags
03.22.2012 , 07:09 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Nwalmaer View Post
Pretty sure Im playing the class right. And if you are doing 400k in a warzone you are in a premade being gaurded with heals or playing against undergeared players. Assasins on average crit for no more than 3.5k, where as scoundrels and ops are hitting for 4.5k to 5.5k on average. I would like to know what servers you guys are on doing all this damage in deception spec.
Did 400k damage just the other day on void star, granted it was a half decent team with a healer(only 1 mind you) but it was a total pug, i wasn't guarded and they other team was equally geared.

Now if you are in a bad team with zero healing it is somewhat hard to do well but then your whole team generally doesn't do well anyway not just you.

The idea that you think you need a premade team with guarded and healed while fighting an under geared team just to pull off some good damage tells me you really are doing something wrong.
Vors, sith assassin of Guild Grievance
www.grievanceguild.com

upzie's Avatar


upzie
03.22.2012 , 08:21 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by deags View Post
The idea that you think you need a premade team with guarded and healed while fighting an under geared team just to pull off some good damage tells me you really are doing something wrong.
As usual ppl are missing the point of this discussion its not that you can not make deception tolerable to play in pugs, but Darkness is just so much more reliable compared to deception.

And if you do happen to play vs a premade you wont be able to do anything even with your own premade, everytime you pop out to burst you will get taunted, and end up hitting a guarded target, while ppl **** you because you got light armor and no defense.

Quote: Originally Posted by deags View Post
Now if you are in a bad team with zero healing it is somewhat hard to do well but then your whole team generally doesn't do well anyway not just you.
This was a game I played some time ago, team I was on was horrible, the one goal we got was by me with no backup etc, not to mention the amount of goals I prevented the enemy team from scoring, we still ended up loosing though.

Scoreboard

If I had played deception I wouldnt have done the same kind of dmg, been able to prevent as many scores as I did put out protection in the fashion I did. And ye no healer on our team.



Long story short Darkness > Deception, that said deception can be fun, and you can perform okay, but dont kid yourself. You die faster, your burst is to easy to nulify, your utility is a joke, you basicly bring nothing to the team that a darkness sin, or another class cant do.
Upzie, Assassin | Disciples of Zdupz | Tomb of Freedon Nadd
I'm proberly better than you

deags's Avatar


deags
03.22.2012 , 08:40 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by upzie View Post
As usual ppl are missing the point of this discussion its not that you can not make deception tolerable to play in pugs, but Darkness is just so much more reliable compared to deception.

And if you do happen to play vs a premade you wont be able to do anything even with your own premade, everytime you pop out to burst you will get taunted, and end up hitting a guarded target, while ppl **** you because you got light armor and no defense.



This was a game I played some time ago, team I was on was horrible, the one goal we got was by me with no backup etc, not to mention the amount of goals I prevented the enemy team from scoring, we still ended up loosing though.

Scoreboard

If I had played deception I wouldnt have done the same kind of dmg, been able to prevent as many scores as I did put out protection in the fashion I did. And ye no healer on our team.



Long story short Darkness > Deception, that said deception can be fun, and you can perform okay, but dont kid yourself. You die faster, your burst is to easy to nulify, your utility is a joke, you basicly bring nothing to the team that a darkness sin, or another class cant do.
So sounds to me that darkness is the problem, it's too powerful, you shouldn't be able to make to the goal line alone, nerf darkness clearly, i still say deception is fine, it's just your are comparing it to a spec that is Over Powered.
Vors, sith assassin of Guild Grievance
www.grievanceguild.com

Jaigen's Avatar


Jaigen
03.23.2012 , 01:26 AM | #19
Any class that has a speed ability are very powerful in an objective based match. PT AP marauders and sorcs all have the ability to solo a hutball run. These classes are also obnoxious during voidstar as they are the only ones that can jump the gap in engine room.

kijthae's Avatar


kijthae
03.23.2012 , 04:10 AM | #20
Deception is crit dependent and yes it seems weak against players who have equal gear.Cracking blast grants you %50 crit damage increase for shock and discharge but it doesnt increase non-crit damage of shock/discharge.I lack only 4 pieces of BM equipment.I used crit/suge mods , enchancements I have %35 crit with buffs. As a class who needs to stack buffs from volcanic slash , 5x buff for discharge even %35 crit is very low.If crackling blast was increasing both crit and noncrit damage of shock and discharge we would perform perfect. %50 damage increase is too op maybe it could be a little bit less like %35-40 but not limited to crits.Recklessness is very useful here by granting you %60 more crit chance but 1m 15 second cooldowd is high I think. It could be around 45-50 seconds as an alternative to crackling blast .

For survivalbility issues , I dont think we need any change.We are stealth classes we arent supposed to survive long unstealthed.However you can still use cooldowns like +%50 defence to keep your hp high and restealth.I am using low stash as an interrupt for ranged and as a cc when I have some melee nuking me.