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Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Medpacks... are you kidding me?!?!!?!?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Krivoklat's Avatar


Krivoklat
03.25.2012 , 11:27 AM | #521
Quote: Originally Posted by Padshar View Post
Why not just delete biochem all together now.. seriously.. nerf after nerf after nerf.. Give us some craftable Rakata Implants if your going to make everything else we craft pointless.


seriously only 1 med pack per fight is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. Now people will just stop using them because they will just think "now's not the time, i may need it more later in the fight"


for fights like SOA where some damage is entirely out of the players control and caused by the environment this is a stupid change...

the platform falls on soa are one example.. say the healers are already down on long fall platform and a dps class with out heals is up above them with out enough life to survive the fall. so they have to use the med pack.

Now that med pack is not available, so when Soa tosses you up in the air and slams you against the pillars (another damage you have 100% no control over and no way to stop that's random) you now have no medpack avaliable to use.

or what about when you pop a lightening ball (that sometimes double/tripple ticks) and drop below 50% health and a healers mind trapped at the same time.. you now have no med pack and if you get tossed into the air you are coming back dead.

when you take fights like this where so much is completly out of the players hands and left to the random (RNG) gods and then remove our way of trying to counter balance some of randomness you dont make much sense.
Word.
Where you come from is gone.
Where you were going to weren't never there.
Where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it.

Mulawin's Avatar


Mulawin
03.25.2012 , 11:40 AM | #522
I agree with this change it puts more difficulty in PVE and balancing on PVP

speedracerlo's Avatar


speedracerlo
03.25.2012 , 11:41 AM | #523
This is a stupid idea as everyone here stated

george zoeller change this back to what we the customers want, not what you think is right

Moshpet's Avatar


Moshpet
03.25.2012 , 11:42 AM | #524
Quote: Originally Posted by nikthebeast View Post
Wait, what?

If the game allows for a single use per combat and the game's encounters are balanced with this is mind, how is this bad for us? Please explain. Without hyperbolic language...
I can answer this.

1- The game mechanics are not balanced for this.
a- Class boss fights (story) frequently go past 1 minute 30 second.
b- Class quest often have elements where an area fight lasts longer than than 1.5 minutes.
c- Class quests have buggy mobs like any other quest series.


2- World Story Arc encounters, if done at level range, consistently take longer than one medpach.

2- Choke point areas on Hammer Station, Athiss, MR et all have battles that will last past the cool down of the medpacks.

4-Broken mechanics to keep you in combat abound.

5- Companion Agro Mechanics - If you haven't noticed, various companions generate agro just by just following you in game. Tharan is a prime example, as his 'companion' generates threat and she gets 'killed' set on fire, agros a mob -way- out of area you are fighting it. (This happens so often in the 'Recover the prototype shields' mission on Illum, that it's not funny.)


6- Mob Respawn Dynamics - Murphy's Law on Respawns a- A mob will repawn, B- most of the time right where you are, as you are finishing a fight... d-before your col down of the medpack (etc) has cooled down.
~~~~~~~~
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Obison's Avatar


Obison
03.25.2012 , 11:49 AM | #525
My first toon went bio, I levelled to 50 before the game was launched during early access and cleared ALL content in the first week. Medpacks are SO OP, I rolled bio on ALL my other toons, and so did most of my guild once they saw what I was doing. I assure you, this change was needed.

They could take medpacks out of the game, and I would agree with the change. Ive honestly felt like I was cheating using them, but why wouldn't you use something so bloody powerful..

Good on BW for taking this OBVIOUSLY OP item, and changing it.

They really need to do better testing on **** before the implement it. I only hope they have done a better job testing all the " other " stuff they've done in 1.2..

Occams_Razor's Avatar


Occams_Razor
03.25.2012 , 12:20 PM | #526
Quote: Originally Posted by Nerzhul View Post
If the statement had simply read "We feel that this change will allow us to make encounters slightly more difficult, and give us the ability to balance the game more around player co-operation," then I would have been perfectly fine with that. It's the attitude that comes across in the statement that gets to me more than the change does. It just seems to show the thinking around many of the changes made in this game.

Are you honestly happy that the Devs want to make changes based on what makes their jobs easier, as opposed to having some other motivation, like what makes game play better?
Hmmmm, so you suggest an alternate interpretation of Mr. Zoeller's comment and then dismiss it because his statement doesn't say that explicitly? Your assumption is that "more easily" refers to effort as opposed to difficulty. Perhaps what he meant was this: with the variance in use of medpacs between players, balancing content has become impractical because PVE encounters cannot be challenging but achievable for folks not using medpacs on CD without trivializing that same content for those who don't use them on CD and PvP already involves many variables in class balance and "on CD" use of medpacs skews that balance in unpredictable ways.

My father always said "Never ascribe to malice what can be explained through ignorance. Mr. Zoeller is not always the best communicator, but in this case, I think it's far more likely he's speaking of feasibility rather than desire to exert effort.

Occams_Razor's Avatar


Occams_Razor
03.25.2012 , 12:24 PM | #527
Quote: Originally Posted by Moshpet View Post
I can answer this.

1- The game mechanics are not balanced for this.
a- Class boss fights (story) frequently go past 1 minute 30 second.
b- Class quest often have elements where an area fight lasts longer than than 1.5 minutes.
c- Class quests have buggy mobs like any other quest series.


2- World Story Arc encounters, if done at level range, consistently take longer than one medpach.

2- Choke point areas on Hammer Station, Athiss, MR et all have battles that will last past the cool down of the medpacks.

4-Broken mechanics to keep you in combat abound.

5- Companion Agro Mechanics - If you haven't noticed, various companions generate agro just by just following you in game. Tharan is a prime example, as his 'companion' generates threat and she gets 'killed' set on fire, agros a mob -way- out of area you are fighting it. (This happens so often in the 'Recover the prototype shields' mission on Illum, that it's not funny.)


6- Mob Respawn Dynamics - Murphy's Law on Respawns a- A mob will repawn, B- most of the time right where you are, as you are finishing a fight... d-before your col down of the medpack (etc) has cooled down.
First of all, most of these examples assume the following: that these fights are not tuned around a pretty simple equation: can you deal the enemies combined health in damage (and interrupt certain abilities, decreasing damage or preventing auto-kills) before they deal your health in damage. I've played through the game nearly three times since launch, I've used medpacs sparingly when I was not doing content balanced for a character above my level.

Secondly, most of these can be re-tuned if the lack of medpacs causes that many issues. I suspect that won't be necessary, however.

Urkanan's Avatar


Urkanan
03.25.2012 , 01:03 PM | #528
Quote: Originally Posted by Moshpet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iceperson
umm, if it takes you 20 minutes to kill something then they probably don't intend for you to solo it...
Maybe some of us are nuts and want to see is we can fight a 20 minute fight, just to say, "Top that." (Or as the dev's said in the Guild summit ".... Some of you said 'Challenge Accepted!"
I totally support your logic here. My question is:

if someone really is that kind of player, does he/she really have a problem with this change?

I think not.

Urkanan's Avatar


Urkanan
03.25.2012 , 01:17 PM | #529
Quote: Originally Posted by Moshpet View Post
I can answer this.

a- Class boss fights (story) frequently go past 1 minute 30 second.
b- Class quest often have elements where an area fight lasts longer than than 1.5 minutes.
c- Class quests have buggy mobs like any other quest series.


2- World Story Arc encounters, if done at level range, consistently take longer than one medpach.

2- Choke point areas on Hammer Station, Athiss, MR et all have battles that will last past the cool down of the medpacks.

6- Mob Respawn Dynamics - Murphy's Law on Respawns a- A mob will repawn, B- most of the time right where you are, as you are finishing a fight... d-before your col down of the medpack (etc) has cooled down.
You skipped 3.

About a, b, c, 2 and 2:
You should try to actually dps the mobs instead of talking them to death.

I am a lousy dps. I leveled as a bodyguard (for extra challenge) and I can asure you that if any of my story arc encounters was longer than 100-110s (you don't pop a medpack right as you pull, do you?) it was the very odd, mildly relevant fight. In essence, if you take longer to gain control of the fight than they take to kill your pet, you are doomed.


About 6
As melee, fight mobs on their spawn spot. It's not like you need to kite in this game.
As ranged, try not to set your pull zone on the spawn point of the group you just cleared.

I won't even bring into discussion the ludicrous amount of time between the spawn and the mobs actually "activating" and being able to target you.


Availability of medpacks is most definitely not your gameplay's most urgent issue.

EDIT: I also want to remind that some dev (I think GZ) stated they are looking into leaving medpacs as they are for pre-50 stuff, and limit this change to end-game.

I personally welcome the change, but wouldn't care if left as unlimited for leveling and story mode ops. Think that adds game accesibility for the more casual player



Quote: Originally Posted by speedracerlo View Post
This is a stupid idea as everyone here stated

george zoeller change this back to what we the customers want, not what you think is right
definitely the way things should work, because you know better huh?; you = funny.

or was your irony wasted with me here?

Moshpet's Avatar


Moshpet
03.25.2012 , 01:34 PM | #530
Quote: Originally Posted by Occams_Razor View Post
First of all, most of these examples assume the following: that these fights are not tuned around a pretty simple equation: can you deal the enemies combined health in damage (and interrupt certain abilities, decreasing damage or preventing auto-kills) before they deal your health in damage. I've played through the game nearly three times since launch, I've used medpacs sparingly when I was not doing content balanced for a character above my level.

Secondly, most of these can be re-tuned if the lack of medpacs causes that many issues. I suspect that won't be necessary, however.
I'm glad you are talented enough to play through 3 times.

Personally, I've got 1 50, & 3 level 30+s on just one sever I've got a pts toon at level 30 (since just the 1.2 patch mind you,) and a few more level 15&20's scattered whilly nilly across several severs, thanks to the massive over population explosion on the first few days.

Need I add in the betas I attended... Nah, that's just gloating....


OK, we're both solid gamers I expect. It's also safe to say our play styles differ, I am -constantly- fighting mobs 1-3 levels higher than I am. Because I am good enough to do so. I also know that If I hit a boss where things like my interrupts down't work, I have to back off grind a few levels and then kick its arse.


Pulling this crap on PTS has affected my play style, I spend more time and credits repairing from fights I would normally win, if I my medpack was ready to use. (Not to mention having to file countless bugreports *sheesh*)

Since the game already has a costly repair system that takes the player base's credits, much like a school yard bully, people will find it harder to get gear and to progress. Many will say, 'screw it and play another game, some may stick it out due to love of the IP.

----------------

The current state of the game mechanics, however will penalize the player, the casual ones.

OF which _do_ out-number us 'hard core players' by a large margin ... So which is the group Bio-war can ill afford to anger the most?

(Hit it's the one with the greater number of playing subcribers.)

So yeah, take the bitter pill of the medpack nerf, swallow deeply and watch how fast the casual players leave.

Or wake up and help to prod the devs to a saner course of action.
~~~~~~~~
All bribes must be in the form of Dark Chocolate Please
Or Cash,Have fun
M.