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Biochem 1.2 Nerf details inside

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Biochem 1.2 Nerf details inside
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ComeAndSee's Avatar


ComeAndSee
03.23.2012 , 06:59 AM | #41
Biochem is still a good profession regardless. Free stat consumables? I mean, come on. If you guys can't see the convenience of that than I pity you. What they're doing next patch is making other professions viable.

I mean I felt like I completely wasted my time leveling and getting Armormech/Scavenging and then having to start over to get Biochem because it was FOTM.
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Evel's Avatar


Evel
03.23.2012 , 09:36 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by daMarek View Post
From http://www.swtor.com/blog/crew-skills-game-update-1.2


This means Biochem will not be able to produce Implants with Augment slots, which right now are a money maker.
I asked Georg about this on Google+ and here is the response I got:

Quote:
Georg Zoeller - Sure. The blog is incorrect, my mistake. You will still be able to crit on implants (but you don't get two).

Basically all item modifications (mods, enhancements, etc.) now produce an additional unit on a crit and somehow that text ended up on BioChem. Derp.

Sorry for the confusion
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Raeln's Avatar


Raeln
03.23.2012 , 10:01 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by ComeAndSee View Post
Biochem is still a good profession regardless. Free stat consumables? I mean, come on. If you guys can't see the convenience of that than I pity you. What they're doing next patch is making other professions viable.

I mean I felt like I completely wasted my time leveling and getting Armormech/Scavenging and then having to start over to get Biochem because it was FOTM.
Where are these free stat consumables? If you are referring to the reusables that Biochem has now, those will end up falling by the wayside in the future.

If what you are referring to is that Biochem can make "free stat consumables", meaning that it doesn't cost the Biochem anything to make them - then that is somewhat misleading. We still have to pay through the nose to gather those materials through bioanalysis, diplomacy or the market. Though we will pass those costs right on to the consumer when we list the final product on the market.

I hope Bioware reconsiders supporting the reusable adrenal, else Biochem has really become an alt crew skill. If the "perks" for being a Biochem are not maintained (current, reusables) - then there will be no reason to have Biochem on the main character. It would be better to just have an alt make the stims. With medpacks going to one use per encounter, they are now completely useless - I hope they buff them to be a full heal, rather than barely 40% of my healthbar, since they will now only be usable one time per 6 minute raid encounter.

Not to sound like QQ, but I seriously hope adrenals produce several per combine. As long as they are as expensive as they are to make - a 15 second buff (that will probably end up triggering the medpack cooldown) is questionable. Might as well remove the adrenal line.

nToxiK's Avatar


nToxiK
03.23.2012 , 10:49 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Evel View Post
I asked Georg about this on Google+ and here is the response I got:

Quote:
Georg Zoeller - Sure. The blog is incorrect, my mistake. You will still be able to crit on implants (but you don't get two).

Basically all item modifications (mods, enhancements, etc.) now produce an additional unit on a crit and somehow that text ended up on BioChem. Derp.

Sorry for the confusion
What does 'produces an additional unit on a crit' mean? Does that mean you will get two implants instead of one if you crit or does additional unit = augment slot?

JumpDrive's Avatar


JumpDrive
03.23.2012 , 11:02 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by nToxiK View Post
What does 'produces an additional unit on a crit' mean? Does that mean you will get two implants instead of one if you crit or does additional unit = augment slot?
... it's quite simple. When you craft a mod, ie armoring, enhancement mod etc. and the crafting "Crits" you will now get a second one. (live right now you can't crit mod-units).

for biochem critting an implants means it gains an augment slot. it does not mean you will gain an addition implant like that incorrect post suggested.
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onfireguy's Avatar


onfireguy
03.23.2012 , 12:28 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
The blog is incorrect, my fault. We'll update it.

You will still be able to crit on the creation of implants.

Sorry for the confusion.
The confusion wasn't if we could/would still crit when crafting an implant, but rather, what the crit bonus would be. Thank God for Evel for pursuing this further outside the conversation(s) on the official SWTOR forums and helping to clear up the confusion. We now understand that the crit on crafted Implants remains the augment slot.

DizzD's Avatar


DizzD
03.23.2012 , 03:13 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by zachbuford View Post
the amount of QQ is quite amazing... biochem is by far the most overpowered crew skill in the game right now, for several reasons:

1-reusable stimpack: double the stats of a vendor's (yes they will be phased out but you will KEEP the rakata recipe, and that recipe will be very viable for a very long time)

2-reusable adrenals: same situation as above

3-very high quality BoE implants: they may no longer have augs but they will still sell great, if you don't have any good recipes then please raid more to get those recipes, i have 2 columi implants waiting for my scoundrel when he hits 50.

4-reusable medpacks: pretty much free health

5-sellable stims: by far the best PvE money maker in the game, i spend a good 100-200k buying stims from my biochem friends a week to stay on my A-game for operations



They are not screwing biochem, just simply balancing. In the current state of the game going biochem is the only viable option endgame, that is why they are phasing out (NOT REMOVING) the reusables.
No offense, but you are 100% wrong

In the END GAME, money is virtually no object. Anyone can make 1mil + per week simply doing dailies. Anything the Biochems can do is available for credits to everyone else, compared to other classes who have EXCLUSIVE BOP BIS items that only they can use.

1. Rakata stims are a grand total of 12 stat pts better than Exotech which are BOE.

Compare that to the following:
Synthweaving/Armormech - BOP Rakata crit crafted Belt+Bracer = 56pt. stat advantage
Artifice - BOP Rakata crit crafted Relic(x2) = 56pt. stat advantage

2. Buy them. Once again, money is not an advantage since it's available easily to everyone at lvl50.

3. I can make a single item for less materials than it takes to make a stack of stims and make the same amount of profit on my armormech. But this is nothing compared to what i'll make on him in 1.2 selling crit orange gear. Biochem materials overhead is tremendously high and the margins are much thinner than you realise.

4. ONCE AGAIN...you can buy BETTER medpacks than the reusable ones. Yes, they cost money but money is a non issue at the end game unless you simply refuse to go get what is easily available to you.

5. For the last time, only players who are too lazy to do dailies, play the market, craft and sell goods, etc are obsessed with the money aspect of Biochem. And even then it is NOT necessarily the most profitable tradeskill because of the amount of overhead/time/effort involved in running a consumable crafter.

For the same time/effort/overhead I make way more on my Armormech without even trying. But guess what? I make way more money than any of my crafting by simply running dailies and selling the extra Rakata pieces on the GTN which....anyone lvl50 can do!

In conclusion...
The true value of an end-game crewskill is NON-MONETARY EXCLUSIVE ADVANTAGES.
Synthweaving, Armormech and Artifice currently provide the best permanent stat advantage with their +56 available through BOP BIS crafted items.

Cybertech is the worst endgame crewskill currently, only slightly beaten out by Biochem due to the +12 stat advantage from Rakata Stims.

The devs have already stated that Biochem reusables are not being upgraded, effectively killing the tradeskill as it relates to the end game. It will only be suitable for alts to be used as crafting mules to slave away for guildmates, so really it's funny that baddies who don't understand the game are even still harping on Biochem. Funny and kind of sad.
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GnatB's Avatar


GnatB
03.23.2012 , 03:41 PM | #48
1. They've already said they're removing the BoP from crafted items. So synthweaving/armor/etc. are losing that BoP "perk".
2. Most people don't end game raid. Most people don't spend a whole lot of time at lvl 50. So, many would argue what happens *at* 50 is mostly irrelevant. It's what happens on the way there that matters.
3. Crit orange gear will very quickly become dirt cheap. Easily crafteable, and people only need one. There will be a small market for "to order" gear from people interested in appearances though, but I expect that'll be the exception not the rule.


In conclusion the only advantage to ANY tradeskill over not doing a tradeskill at all SHOULD be monetary (and for the most part *will* be monetary). So, if biochem retains the skill restriction on it's reuseables (which it may not) it will be the only one with ANY non-monetary advantage. Which means it'll still be broken and the "go to" tradeskill.

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
03.23.2012 , 03:41 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by DizzD View Post
No offense, but you are 100% wrong

In the END GAME, money is virtually no object. Anyone can make 1mil + per week simply doing dailies. Anything the Biochems can do is available for credits to everyone else, compared to other classes who have EXCLUSIVE BOP BIS items that only they can use.

1. Rakata stims are a grand total of 12 stat pts better than Exotech which are BOE.

Compare that to the following:
Synthweaving/Armormech - BOP Rakata crit crafted Belt+Bracer = 56pt. stat advantage
Artifice - BOP Rakata crit crafted Relic(x2) = 56pt. stat advantage

2. Buy them. Once again, money is not an advantage since it's available easily to everyone at lvl50.

3. I can make a single item for less materials than it takes to make a stack of stims and make the same amount of profit on my armormech. But this is nothing compared to what i'll make on him in 1.2 selling crit orange gear. Biochem materials overhead is tremendously high and the margins are much thinner than you realise.

4. ONCE AGAIN...you can buy BETTER medpacks than the reusable ones. Yes, they cost money but money is a non issue at the end game unless you simply refuse to go get what is easily available to you.

5. For the last time, only players who are too lazy to do dailies, play the market, craft and sell goods, etc are obsessed with the money aspect of Biochem. And even then it is NOT necessarily the most profitable tradeskill because of the amount of overhead/time/effort involved in running a consumable crafter.

For the same time/effort/overhead I make way more on my Armormech without even trying. But guess what? I make way more money than any of my crafting by simply running dailies and selling the extra Rakata pieces on the GTN which....anyone lvl50 can do!

In conclusion...
The true value of an end-game crewskill is NON-MONETARY EXCLUSIVE ADVANTAGES.
Synthweaving, Armormech and Artifice currently provide the best permanent stat advantage with their +56 available through BOP BIS crafted items.

Cybertech is the worst endgame crewskill currently, only slightly beaten out by Biochem due to the +12 stat advantage from Rakata Stims.

The devs have already stated that Biochem reusables are not being upgraded, effectively killing the tradeskill as it relates to the end game. It will only be suitable for alts to be used as crafting mules to slave away for guildmates, so really it's funny that baddies who don't understand the game are even still harping on Biochem. Funny and kind of sad.



^^ What he said ^^

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
03.23.2012 , 03:45 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by GnatB View Post
1. They've already said they're removing the BoP from crafted items. So synthweaving/armor/etc. are losing that BoP "perk".
2. Most people don't end game raid. Most people don't spend a whole lot of time at lvl 50. So, many would argue what happens *at* 50 is mostly irrelevant. It's what happens on the way there that matters.
3. Crit orange gear will very quickly become dirt cheap. Easily crafteable, and people only need one. There will be a small market for "to order" gear from people interested in appearances though, but I expect that'll be the exception not the rule.


In conclusion the only advantage to ANY tradeskill over not doing a tradeskill at all SHOULD be monetary (and for the most part *will* be monetary). So, if biochem retains the skill restriction on it's reuseables (which it may not) it will be the only one with ANY non-monetary advantage. Which means it'll still be broken and the "go to" tradeskill.
Those reusables will quickly become worthless to 30+% of the playerbase that raids, when 1.2 and the next tier hits.

As for crit orange gear not making money? I guess you dont understand end game one bit. If you think most players dont spend alot of time at 50 then you dont understand MMOs. If you think Orange crit gear will become dirt cheap then you simple dont understand the market. As well as you act like it will be easy to crit gear... i doubt it will be easy at all. If you get 1 piece in 10 to crit then the cost alone will drive the price up to not be "dirt cheap"