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Hardmode ops groups


Senga_J's Avatar


Senga_J
03.20.2012 , 03:11 PM | #1
So yesterday I was looking to do some operations, and there were a few groups looking to do hardmode operations. I didn't even get a chance to play though, because my gear apparently 'wouldn't work'. Do you need full columi to do the hardmodes, or can you get away with champion gear and self crafted rakata? I dont even have full champion, but I do have base 1500 aim for my dps BH. Any suggestions?
POT5 Level 55's:
Serdatt (PT) Zerriest (Sin) Asareng (Mara)

Sir-Phobos's Avatar


Sir-Phobos
03.20.2012 , 03:30 PM | #2
I'd say Champion is a good baseline for hard mode raids. Anything much worse than that (particularly for your DPS) and you might have trouble with enrage timers on some bosses.

Turst's Avatar


Turst
03.20.2012 , 05:09 PM | #3
Call me a jerk if you want, but I wouldn't take a Pugger wearing PVP gear into a Hard Mode operation. Period.

It's not that they are exceedingly difficult, but some bosses are dps/gear checks (Bonethrasher or G4-B3 for example) and there are 7 (or 15) other people in the group and their time is just as valuable as yours.

I'd take you into a normal mode operation in a heart-beat though... if it means anything.

Lightning_'s Avatar


Lightning_
03.21.2012 , 03:19 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Turst View Post
Call me a jerk if you want, but I wouldn't take a Pugger wearing PVP gear into a Hard Mode operation. Period.

It's not that they are exceedingly difficult, but some bosses are dps/gear checks (Bonethrasher or G4-B3 for example) and there are 7 (or 15) other people in the group and their time is just as valuable as yours.

I'd take you into a normal mode operation in a heart-beat though... if it means anything.
Just because of the 100 main stat lost related to Columi? You sure it makes that much of a difference?

Surgin's Avatar


Surgin
03.21.2012 , 03:31 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Lightning_ View Post
Just because of the 100 main stat lost related to Columi? You sure it makes that much of a difference?
Yeah the difference in minimal... I do hardmode OP's in PVP gear and my stats are as good or better than some of the people in all pve.

Granted my gear isnt all pvp but its mainly champion with some battlemaster/columi/rakata mixed.

Buffed as a dps sin I am 1400+ end 1500+ willpower 38-39% crit 73-74% crit multiplier 390-400ish bonus damage etc. I have never had an issue. *shrug*

DarthDemens's Avatar


DarthDemens
03.21.2012 , 03:34 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Lightning_ View Post
Just because of the 100 main stat lost related to Columi? You sure it makes that much of a difference?
It's not so much the 100 stat loss (although it does make a difference) for me, as it is that previous experiences with PUGs in Champion gear has shown me that they:

1) Don't know the fights
2) Don't listen when I explain the fights
3) Don't listen when I'm correcting them during the fights
etc...

May not be your case personally, but...
Oh, great . you live on in our hearts!
Comprehensive Guide to Space Missions

xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
03.21.2012 , 03:34 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Lightning_ View Post
Just because of the 100 main stat lost related to Columi? You sure it makes that much of a difference?
While I cannot say that one person having PvP gear will single-handedly break the success of the operation, it does certainly mean that someone else will be picking up the slack.
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy

Twuntage's Avatar


Twuntage
03.21.2012 , 03:38 AM | #8
I did a little excel sheet on that exact issue casue i was seriously unmotivated at work 1 day in January.

I only did it for my own class (SIS healer) cause there was to many ppl in our raids with pvp gear claiming it was same as Columi gear. With the generic spread of stats on class sets i assume this will be roughly same spread for all classes and roles.

I did not compare Battlemaster with pve gear which ofc will be diffrent

Tionese vs Champion:
Tionese has 2 endurence, 156 crit, 98 surge, 176 armor and 650 expertise less then champion gear.
Tionese has 77 willpower 54 power and 66 alecrity more then Champion gear.

This makes champion gear more or less on par with Tier 1 (tionese gear)

Columi vs Champion:
Columi has 650 less expertise then Champion gear.
Columi has 227 endurance and 221 willpower more then Champion gear.

Is Champion gear on par with Columi?

The answer: Hell no and not even close, pve wise its barly a replacment for Tionese gear.

With the unability to inspect the real specc of toons and no logs, i dont blame pugs/guilds for excluding people who bring pvp gear to HM operations.
Twuntage Rakata hoe
Bloodtworthy PVP EU
16 man Nightmare EV/KP mode farmer
Not failing since 2005

Norlon's Avatar


Norlon
03.21.2012 , 07:42 AM | #9
My guild does 16m Nightmare and even 8 Nightmare with some of our newer raiders having a few pieces of oranges. 8man Hard mode I have a feeling as long as you have good mix of chapion/tionese/columni and maybe a few orange pieces if necessary you would be in good shape.

Crixaliss's Avatar


Crixaliss
03.21.2012 , 10:43 AM | #10
I think the problem with waltzing into a HM op with PvP gear, is that it suggests you haven't partaken in much PvE at all. If you don't have a couple of Columi pieces at least, it looks like you haven't bothered to run any HM FPs or normal-mode ops before expecting to dive into a HM op.

Not saying thats the case, just saying what it could look like from the op leaders point of view. He wants a smooth op, probably he doesn't mind bringing some under-geared people, but he maybe doesn't want to risk bringing someone along who has no experience of these particular encounters or perhaps of much experience of how end-game PvE in this game works at all.

Maybe you've done lots of HM FPs and run the normal mode ops, but the RNG has just been mean to you in terms of gear drops, or maybe this character is an ALT and your main is very experienced on the PvE side of things but you wanted to run pvp with this character. The op leader isn't about to run all this stuff through his head though, people on the internet are elitist and want things quick and easy (sweeping generalisation, I know), he's just gonna see PvP gear and say hell no, we want someone different.

At least thats the way I perceive it.

Pug a few NM ops to grab that columi gear, and then try for HM ops?