Guardian stealth nerf: talent completely removed on test; no mention in 1.2 pnotes

I'm pointing out that Vigilence didn't need protector being removed, the fact was the Defense tree was such a disaster that a hybrid could outtank a pure tank.

I imagine as almost a pure vigilence, I can still play a tank in 1.2 just by utilizing gear (though it won't be for as long as I used to be able to), the Guardian class is currently dependent on our gear and not the skill tree when it come to tanking.

It isn't a sign that Vigilence and Focus are OPed like Bioware seems to think, the problem was the Defense tree was literally so bad that a DPS skill tree (or hybrid) actually made as good of or better tank than the Defense tree.

Bioware should have taken the hint and fixed the defense tree, not nerfed Vigilence's survivability.

Commanding Awe might make up for Shield Spec and Inner Peace damage reduction, but with pure vigilance you will not have access to Warding Call, Blade Barrier, Blade Barricade, most of either Guard Stance or lunge, an 8% AoE buff, Hilt Strike, Guardian Slash, Cyclonic Sweeps, or any of the utility in the Defense tree really. As the Defense build you will also have more focus (assuming you're saying you would avoid Shien). Could you tank on gear alone as a DPS build? I dunno maybe with good/multiple healers. I have no idea why you would try though, you wouldn't have the survivability or any AoE threat generation over the Defense specced Guardian. And the Guardian won't be having trouble with single target threat this patch so....

I said "almost" a pure vigilence, I currently do have some points in defense and focus.

What I was trying to point out is that I play Vigilence as a DPS not as a Hybrid, and yeah you actually can pull off being an emergency tank currently as a Vigilence DPS, it's due to the fact our tanking ability is centered completely on our gear, not our skill tree.

But why would you be wearing tanking gear if you aren't intending to tank? You would be in DPS gear

Anyway if you Were in tank gear, you might be able to off-tank for a little while, but it's not like other classes with a tanking stance couldn't do the same thing.

Pure vigilance assumes at least 31 points in a tree. If you didn't put in 31 points, which is what my assessment was based off of, then you are considered by most to be a hybrid

It was cause the first time I did maelstrom I ended up with a complete set of Warden gear including the gloves and boots. Since I was dps I started switching things to be more dps oriented, then discovered hmmm I'm actually surviving things more with this kind of gear setup, than when I had pure dps outfitted gear.

I'm in the process of trying to get a pure dps outfit, but the fact that my survival rate went up significantly all due to gear and not tanking skills, is why I can say that our tanking ability is totally dependent on gear, not on the skill tree.

Yeah... that's how gear works....

What I'm saying is I found a sweet spot where I do decent dps, and decent survivability while I was in the process of converting things to DPS cause I liked how the gear looked.

It has been a pain in the neck to keep the loadout consistent as i leveled up to 50, trying to find the right upgrade combos to maintain the balance was a pain in the neck.

Yes it is. Commanding awe does the exact same thing it does now, but also gives FD 15% dr. Protector is still far better, but 15% dr when using FD is better than nothing.

I never really had focus starvation issues tanking as vig/hybrid, and still managed to hold aggro. Due to the nature of FD, a tank would have to use taunt at the same time as FD (neither of them are on GCD so you can press both at once), but it is entirely plausible for a tank to use FD while tanking. And remember, the loss of focus only applies when you take damage. In tanking gear and raid buffed, I have easily 30% def rating at least. So I'm not losing that much focus because I'm not getting hit nearly as much.

Def tree has not gotten any significant buffs aside from guardian slash getting more threat. That tree is utter garbage (LOLOL +4% shield chance being so high up). As I've posted already, that threat buff still doesn't put it above vig/def build. And with FD talented, vig/def still maintains higher surv.

I'm extremely pissed off about protector nerf too because I really enjoyed looking like a super hero jumping back and forth while tanking. It made tanking a little more dynamic and it was much less boring than full def.

I think the vig/def build is still better than full def in 1.2. While we lost protector, commanding awe got lower and gives FD 15% dr. Though not nearly as good as protector, it still puts vig/def build ahead of full def in surv. We can also get stasis mastery now as a vig/def build.

Only thing def got in 1.2 was 50% threat to lolguardian slash. Even with that change, it still doesn't do as much threat as vig/def. And of course, full def doesn't have as much surv either.

Let's say I have a bar full of focus (though the only reason I would see you having this much as a Vigiliance tank is if you just used lightsaber throw, force leap, and combat focus at once). I hit FD, 4 go away, and my threat drops. I hit taunt to make up for it. My threat jumps to even with the highest person. Now I use Sundering Strike to get two more focus so I have 8. For the 10 second duration, 30% defense means I can expect about 3 out of the 10 seconds to save focus. So for 7 seconds I can expect 15% extra damage reduction. Now here comes the problem. After Sundering Strike you have to wait 1.5 seconds for the global cooldown to finish. The cooldown on sundering is 5s so you can't use it again yet. That means you have to use Strike or Sweep, or maybe even Master Strike. So you try spamming your free abilities and six seconds after popping taunt, it wears off and the aggro dump from the ticks of FD combined with the fact that you weren't able to keep up your focus generating skills means you lose aggro and the mobs leave.

Yes, you can try spamming as many focus generators as you can but the fact of the matter is you will not be able to maintain threat and use FD at the same time in an effective manner. There is no synergy there. Even you yourself have stated that Guardian threat sucks, so I'm not sure how you are expecting to use a threat dumping ability, that costs so much focus, effectively.

Furthermore your statements that the Vigilance Tank is more survivable are untrue and generalized.

The Vigilance Tank
-Unremitting: 20% damage reduction for 4 seconds (nowhere near as good without protector keeping you leaping)
-Commanding Awe: 4% damage reduction plus 15% on a lackluster ability with no tanking synergy

The Defense Tank
-Blade Barrier: throws up a shield every 12s that absorbs moderate amounts of damage
-Inner Peace: 4% mitigation to elemental/internal damage, which is about half of your incoming damage, so 2% over all; also a 5 second bonus to Enure
-Shield Spec: 4% more shield chance- somewhat lackluster, true, but still a tanking ability
-Blade Barricade: You will have to give up at least point in this skill if you want to get Pacification in order to get close to the 130% Force Sweep you had before (128% with Pacification). Thats at least 2% to melee and ranged defenses.

And then both versions have Warding Call.

The defense Tank is much more survivable than the Vigilance, with more utility like cyclonic sweeps, stasis mastery, and Hilt Strike.