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Add explainations to these nerfs BW

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Add explainations to these nerfs BW

Anatlos's Avatar

03.18.2012 , 05:37 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by EchoTwoOmega View Post
1.2 is up on the PTR.

Why not go see how "bad" the nerfs are.
Because then how will he complain about not being able to tracer spam for leet damages?

And OP: last I checked a 30% damage increase to railshot combined with 20% less armor on the target was NOT small. Go back to Hello Kitty Island Adventure until you can figure out exactly how massive of a damage increase that is.

Spoonster's Avatar

03.21.2012 , 09:51 AM | #12
Ignorance is bliss isn't it, like I said in pve with 4 set you're not stacking railshot buff and in pvp if you're waiting to stack wow you're bad and if you let a merc TM you 5 times in a row to get it stacked, wow you're even worse then the merc trying to stack that high in pvp.

And for the 10th time the armor debuff benefits whoever is in your OP or in your pvp match. It's like any other debuff put on targets in countless other mmos.

Like again previously, I'm not clamoring cuz i want to spam tracer in pvp, highest valor rank across my 3 50s is a whopping 7. I don't pvp in mmos, it's a game concept designed for CoD rejects who can't keep up with that pvp's speed. Nor am I clamoring for tracer or mercs, it's about sweeping balance changes for the sake of pvp. And the idea that educating the playerbase is much more beneficial to the longevity of the game then pandering to the pvp facerollers, who can never get past the fact that in almost every mmo 1 or 2 classes are going to counter you extremely well. It leads to the necessity of team gameplay, ya know MMO.

Almost every negative post in here is filled with misinformation not only about other classes but literally the very ones the players are playing. People don't even understand exactly how their own classes work, let alone the others. Yet they scream for nerfs and buffs.

And to the poster above me, if you've been bad enough to be getting blown up by 5 stack railshots in pvp, you'll be ecstatic to know that, that isn't changing just the tracers hit abit less getting to it. However the heatseeker now hits harder which hits much harder then rail already, and tm procs more barrage, and since you clearly can't be bothered to interrupt, you now take far more unloads, which by the way is like 2-3 times the damage of any merc ability.

Point being, peeps shouldn't be spamming tracer right now on live, they have better options. No changes will stop faceroll pvpers from spamming, if the ability they spam isn't good enough, they'll just switch to whichever class does have the best spam at the time then. Those spamming now aren't interested in compelling gameplay and maximizing damage or they wouldn't be spamming right now. What makes BW think nerfs and buffs will change that mindset is beyond me.

aesirize's Avatar

03.21.2012 , 04:49 PM | #13
You compare Tracer Missile with Snipe and Force Lightning, which all have different reasons to be used. I will only comment on Sniper since i have not dealt with Force lightning.
Snipe can be spammed but at great disadvantage. it is by far our lowest DPCT (Damage Per Cast Time) and DPE (Damage Per Energy) that absolutely does not compare to Tracer Missile. It's used primarily to either A) Proc Rapid Shot that lowers cast time of our 'Hard Hitting' ability Ambush by 1 second making it a 1.5 second cast. (15 second Cool Down on the ability itself) or B) as a filler, although other shots tend to better assuming everything is on cool-down.

(Credit goes to Noevil at "With talents this skill {Tracer Missile} applies 2 heat signatures per use (Light 'Em Up), put's up a damage reduction shield that stacks to five for 20% reduction (Power Barrier), vents 8 heat upon critical (Terminal Velocity), Increases the damage of your next Rail Shot by 30% (Tracer Lock) and has a chance to reset the cool-down on Riddle (Barrage) all for only only 16 heat (Muzzle Fluting). " That's a great deal for simply one ability.

Snipe goes through all damage mitigation like: armor and shields, where as Tracer Missile does not. Tracer Missile ignores all of aforementioned mitigation and stacks an armor debuff on the target. So Snipe will do significantly less damage the more mitigation you have whereas Tracer Missile is not affected. Yes, all teammates can benefit from that debuff but unless everyone is focus firing they most likely will not, that is a poor argument on your part.

you state is does decent damage, it does very high damage especially when you consider the ease of use. one button to do it all. you have the option, whether your good or bad to merely spam that one button to deal the damage equal to someone else who has to maintain a rotation of sorts.

I honestly don't see this as a nerf at all. 10% reduction in damage to an overpowered ability but 10% increased damage to Heat-seeker Missile and increased chance to proc Barrage. They stated that they wanted to encourage a better rotation.

I don't pvp in's about sweeping balance changes for the sake of pvp
um...what? you don't PVP but your talking about 'sweeping balance changes for PVP?'
Of course changes will result from BOTH PVE and PVP as both are apart of the game. A great deal of people absolutely love PVE and hate PVP and vice versa. Bioware must balance both aspects if they want to keep both parties interest in the game.

if you let a merc TM you 5 times in a row to get it stacked, wow you're even worse then the merc trying to stack that high in pvp
So with your valor 7 experience in PVP which is about 3 games? you put down a mercenary that is trying to stack Tracer Missile and the player that is preoccupied or still learning.

Do i agree or disagree with that statement? it's irrelevant as you don't have the experience for this argument to know how high to stack Tracer Missile, as evidence by your post only. Also in PVP, if a Mercenary catches someone who is preoccupied with something else he will get the 3-5 stack necessary to unleash his other shots without much effort.

Almost every negative post in here is filled with misinformation not only about other classes but literally the very ones the players are playing. People don't even understand exactly how their own classes work, let alone the others. Yet they scream for nerfs and buffs.
Yet you don't know about Snipe or Force Lightning. You give out misinformation not only about other classes but literally the very one your playing by comparing Snipe, Tracer Missile and Force Lightning.

I don't pvp in mmos, it's a game concept designed for CoD rejects who can't keep up with that pvp's speed.
Sorry, i had to laugh at that.

You demand to have reasons for the 'nerf' to Bounty Hunters but you have not gone to the PTS to actually assess the changes and make an educated decision. You merely come here, 'demanding' explanations for the changes to the class and make is sound very much like a QQ.

Not to seem rude by my post or anything, but you posted in the wrong forums. If this was a serious question and not simply a QQ as 99% of people see it as, including myself, then it should have been posted in the PTS forums. There are several 'discussions,' if you want to call most of them 'discussions,' about the Bounty Hunter 'nerf' already in progress in the PTS. Instead of making your own in the incorrect place, go add your opinion based off nothing but patch notes in those forums.

Here, for your convenience, I've included the first one i have come across.

Let me also say that there's significant under the hood changes to stats, diminishing returns, itemization stat budget, a new tier of gear with different stats and more diverse mods, changes to PvE and PvP math, etc.

That means that it is not possible to assess impact of class changes in regards to power gain or loss from the patch notes alone, people will have to go on PTS and actually play to get the full picture.

Which we highly encourage you to do!
Georg "Observer" Zoeller
Principal Lead Combat Designer .

KalSpiro's Avatar

03.21.2012 , 07:57 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Spoonster View Post
I think would go a long way to let the playerbase understand your mindset. Cuz certainly alot of your playerbase, who bought your storydriven/pve mmo with some pvp in it, ...
Ok, I'm going to stop you right there. I'm sure you have some thought provoking and relevant ideas and questions about that's happening, but this is a misnomer that needs to be adressed.

TOR is not, nor has it ever been a PvE game with some PvP. While the amount of PvE content may out weigh the amount of PvP content, TOR was design from the beginning with both PvP and PvE in mind. PvP is, in every way, just as important to TOR as PvE and is given, always, as much concideration as the PvE.

That is the way it was designed and that is the way it is treated. So, if you bought the game with the expectation that PvP was a minor extra of no significance, you were mistaken in your belief. What you should also try to understand is that PvP does not, though, outweigh PvE. Everything effects everything, and no changes are put in for one aspect if they truly break another. People just act that way because they're not good at adapting to new play style necessities.
Passion rules thought. Serenity is the path to understanding.
Ignorance rules power. Knowledge is the path to strength.
Weakness rules the masses. Control is the path to victory.
Through the Force my will is done. Through my will the Force prospers.

slowantics's Avatar

03.21.2012 , 11:33 PM | #15
yea i want to know about the sent ataru proc nerf. from ppl doing the numbers it looks like they lowered the dmg
Signature: Coming Soon

Wesgile's Avatar

03.21.2012 , 11:51 PM | #16
snipe gets deflected, damage reduced, doesn't add any debuff, hits for quite a number less than tracer missile, and can't be spammed for more than a few before going out of energy.

Sevonn's Avatar

03.22.2012 , 01:07 AM | #17
You can't really compare snipe vs tm, you just can't...
Roll agent/sniper and try to spam snipe you will see how far you will get with it.
And i think they should totaly remake mercs/commandos, how the hell don't you get bored of spamming grav round/TM all the time?

Spoonster's Avatar

03.22.2012 , 10:10 AM | #18
Aesirize, who the hell demanded anything this was a general game suggestion doesn't have to be large patch notes but any and all going forward, you're paragraph on why you use snipe can be written almost verbatim for lightning strike and tracer. They're the damn fillers you use when your other abilities that are all better are on cd.

This wasn't a post condemning any nerf they are doing, it's that big sweeping nerfs like this early in a game growth rarely turn out well for it, without some sorta in depth design ideas from the devs.

Spammers don't change they're playstyle, cuz of nerfs, they change classes. My point was mercs shouldn't be spamming tracer right now on live, there are better options. The changes don't stop that style of gameplay, but perhaps if more players understood why they should be using the other abilities it could hinder that gameplay.

But that probably can't happen cuz reading comprehension and understanding others viewpoints is an art lost among most in these threads and playing mmos.

Have fun riding around fleet.