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1.2 Hard Mode loot. Why raid when you can just run dailies?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
1.2 Hard Mode loot. Why raid when you can just run dailies?

Nessirin's Avatar


Nessirin
03.19.2012 , 03:38 AM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by ragamer View Post
No, it's not... You can't reach Top-PvP upgrades if you do not play on a team (Forced teams is what we know today as WZ queues).

What corellia means for OPs is a direct link between totally unrelated activities...

...A better mirror would be that BH commendations to be ALSO used to buy the new Tier of PvP Gear.


What BW is going to do is a new kind of PvP mistake...

...By giving Ranked Gear just new looks, that's all. Good luck trying to find competition on Ranked matches.

BW is ignoring the Main Pillar on ANY PvP activity, increase number of players in conflict. And this "split" is something akin of what the situation would be with Corellia Commendations vs OPs, that's a common trait both "mistakes" share. I'm asssuming that top ranked PvPers would at least enjoy faster grinding speed (which is not immediatly obvious... Specially if queues length increase for Ranked matches).

But I don't want to drift this discussion that way... I suppose PvP players would already have topics about this.
Actually you can, you can get ranked points for solo queing There are solo and 8v8 ranked WZs.You may not get great rating, but you still get points, and the unrated gear has the SAME EXACT STATS. I assume you haven't been playing on PTS if you're that misinformed?

They have made 0 announcements on pvp gear outside of what is currently present on the PTS. And they said that ranked gear is going to have "prestige coloring" , which it does. It has no bonus stats whats so ever. It is not a champion => BM like it was before. Its dark red => neon pink. (For a lack of better comparison, blunt statement: Rank makes you stand out more, that's it. Whoopadiedoo.)


P.S I'm not disagreeing with you here, I enjoy the gear grind. But we get what we get, and I'm going to try to enjoy it through experience like a shooter, and not through gear progression like an mmo, heh. Fail? Perhaps. We will see what happens, as well as when nightmare gear/difficulty comes out.
Darth Mado vas Nightfall 50 marauder Ven Zallow

ragamer's Avatar


ragamer
03.19.2012 , 03:49 AM | #102
Quote:
Maybe it's made so those of us who doesn't likes pve or, most of all, doesn't likes grouping up, could still get top gear and have same fun as those who raid?
I understand that lootwhores consider "fun" dressing gear that comes with bigger numbers... Sorry, that thought is totally alien to me... I repeat, I consider gear as tools to see new fights. If they serve no mechanic purpose they are useless...

...And if because a certain portion of the playerbase likes to showoff bigger numbers, I'm forced to get gear out of the environment it's usefull for that in turn will reduce the length of the content I want to progress into, I'm against such a mechanism.



Quote:
Maybe it's done so those of us who just started playing/rerolled could gear up fast and apply to a decent guild?
Then why BW doesn't put you in the same gear level we, the dedicated OPs have? Which is Rakata?


Some logic, pls... Using the same excuses to hide the fact that you are a solo player on a multiplayer game doesn't make the situation improve...

...I know you don't care about the "Multiplayer" part... For some of us the "Multiplayer" part is the difference between paying a sub or not.

Daluu's Avatar


Daluu
03.19.2012 , 03:53 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
Maybe it's made so those of us who doesn't likes pve or, most of all, doesn't likes grouping up, could still get top gear and have same fun as those who raid?
Maybe it's done so those of us who just started playing/rerolled could gear up fast and apply to a decent guild?
If you don't like PvE why do you want the gear?

Nessirin's Avatar


Nessirin
03.19.2012 , 03:55 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Daluu View Post
If you don't like PvE why do you want the gear?
They want to be pretty and special and have the things that people put time in for. Their defense is "they don't have time". The Dev answer should be "Then you don't the raid gear. Here's more social gear."

Quote: Originally Posted by ragamer View Post
I understand that lootwhores consider "fun" dressing gear that comes with bigger numbers... Sorry, that thought is totally alien to me... I repeat, I consider gear as tools to see new fights. If they serve no mechanic purpose they are useless...

...And if because a certain portion of the playerbase likes to showoff bigger numbers, I'm forced to get gear out of the environment it's usefull for that in turn will reduce the length of the content I want to progress into, I'm against such a mechanism.
You're not forced to. It is more efficient to do both. It is like arguing that you are forced to do -something- to make money for the 80-100k repair bills.

You don't have to do dailies. I don't have to do dailies. I have a guild that will probably burn through most of the hard mode content in a few lock outs. We will be geared before most people on the server get their second or third piece of daily gear (If the new patch note holds true, that it takes your group comp into account).

If gear just serves you as a "tool" to see the new content, then I don't see the problem. Get your tools faster, see the content, move on. I don't quite understand you, you call others lootwhores, yet you're against being able to gear up faster. If you're after gear in raids, by definition, you're a lootwhore. If you're after challenge, then you simply don't buy the daily gear. I assume your guild is made up of similarly minded people? Then it shouldn't be hard to convince them not to do that either.

The only argument I understand is from the so-called "lootwhore" raiders, where they put time to get awesome looking gear (well maybe not in this mmo so far, lol!) and gadgets like cars, where "casuals" as they call them, don't have time, but still get the same gear.

To which I say, our mounts are still ours and ours alone. Same with titles. Gear will come and go.
Darth Mado vas Nightfall 50 marauder Ven Zallow

ragamer's Avatar


ragamer
03.19.2012 , 03:56 AM | #105
Quote:
There are solo and 8v8 ranked WZs.You may not get great rating, but you still get points, and the unrated gear has the SAME EXACT STATS. I assume you haven't been playing on PTS if you're that misinformed?
I didn't explain correctly, my bad... Queuing as a Solo player is not equal as playing as solo player...

...Once the match starts you have to play within a team. On 1.2, if you are disruptive or simply AFK you will be votekicked, earning exactly 0 rewards.

The queue system is just a placebo to make ppl believe they are playing alone... Not true, it starts by the queue length, proportional to how many ppl are playing at the same time as you (And the horrible consequences for ppl with game schedules that differ from the average) and when the ranked system gets into will add a new layer of team interactions (Contrary to BW naive approach, I also include negative "group interactions" like the manipulation on ranks, were ranked teams will try to avoid others or the players that will be left out of dreamteams because their classes are not FOTM).


Maybe I'm trying to extend the logic to too many different aspects at the same time...

...So lets get back to the basics. This is a link between playing solo vs playing in groups at high-end, and is wrong.

Nessirin's Avatar


Nessirin
03.19.2012 , 04:06 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by ragamer View Post
I didn't explain correctly, my bad... Queuing as a Solo player is not equal as playing as solo player...

...Once the match starts you have to play within a team. On 1.2, if you are disruptive or simply AFK you will be votekicked, earning exactly 0 rewards.

The queue system is just a placebo to make ppl believe they are playing alone... Not true, it starts by the queue length, proportional to how many ppl are playing at the same time as you (And the horrible consequences for ppl with game schedules that differ from the average) and when the ranked system gets into will add a new layer of team interactions (Contrary to BW naive approach, I also include negative "group interactions" like the manipulation on ranks, were ranked teams will try to avoid others or the players that will be left out of dreamteams because their classes are not FOTM).


Maybe I'm trying to extend the logic to too many different aspects at the same time...

...So lets get back to the basics. This is a link between playing solo vs playing in groups at high-end, and is wrong.
I agree with that, mmos should be about grouping not solo play. While still catering to solo play. Hell, that's what social gear is for. It is what crafted gear is mostly for. Its what companions are for.

I do -not- think that daily comms should give equal gear to actually spending time in raids (You pay for the license to play the game, and its not a single player game, where it only caters to you and you only).

I guess I'm just looking at it from a pseudo-positive side in which we will still have better gear than the daily gear as soon as nightmare ops come out. As well as titles, mounts, pets and all the cool things that we get for raiding,including another story arc that a lot of players may not even experience (Although I doubt ,since the new story mode difficulty will most likely be easier than current normal mode).

The things I value in raiding are things that don't go away: Experience with your friends and peers, challenges, "show off" things like mounts and titles. Like I said in my previous post, gear comes and goes, but those things stay forever with your character.

On this note I shall say good night, because I'm having a hard time staying awake. I shall return to this thread tomorrow if its still around,heh.
Darth Mado vas Nightfall 50 marauder Ven Zallow

Denarok's Avatar


Denarok
03.19.2012 , 04:43 AM | #107
I hope I am misreading correctly. Are you guys saying I never have to raid to get the top tier set 1.2?

I can just solo it by doing dailies everyday?


Please say that it is not so, if not it will kill raiding in this game. Most people will have no desire whatsoever to raid.


All other MMO I have played you raid and usually get better loot that is only obtainable from raids.

dlaselle's Avatar


dlaselle
03.19.2012 , 05:24 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Gavin_Darkl View Post
Dllaselle I am getting tired of you welfare people ruining Games because you do not want to raid. If you dont want to put the effort into raiding you should not get the gear. End of story. You do not need it. You people are Why the MMO community has crumbled to nothing but a big pile of ****. You feel that your $15 a month doing nothing but solo content = My $15 a month who runs a guild who works with people to get geared up to raid, then we raid and down boss content. You people CANNOT grasp the simplest concepts. You Raid you get Raid gear for downing a boss. You dont raid you dont get raid gear. End of story.
First of all. I love to raid and raid continously with my guild. My point was nothing to do with raiding as a whole, but the acquistion of gear I personally believe that raiding should be for fun, challenge, and braging rights. Gear should be obtainablen by anyone.

I have cleared all the content in this game as of now. I raid 3 times a week with my guild. So when you decide to run your mouth about "welfare people ruinin games" maybe you should learn more about the demographics of the people you are talking about it, instead of rage posting and making yourself look stupid.

drosalion's Avatar


drosalion
03.19.2012 , 05:37 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Ainianu View Post
as a tank, i can tell you now i would not even touch it unless it had tanking stats on it

Any tank that just stacks endurance and ignores actual tanking stats is no better than a sentinel or such for tanking

however the idea about having solo gear with presence on in abundance and lower other stats in general is a good one...

If for example PvP gear is

100 main stat
100 endurance
100 expertise
50 secondary stat
50 secondary stat...

PvE Flashpoint/Operation Gear is..
150 main stat
150 endurance
75 secondary stat
75 secondary stat

PvE Solo gear...
75 main stat
75 endurance
75 presence
50 secondary stat
50 secondary stat


that would feel more or less balanced imo given the risk v reward of the gearing paths. assuming those are rough %
The problem with something like that is that the PVE/Operation gear gives you stats that are usable in all situations and circumstances. Expertise is useless outside warzones. Presence is useless without a companion. Yet the stats given to Operation players has a use in flashpoints, operations, soloing, warzones, etc. Why should this be the case? If you wanted true equality there would be a 3rd stat that is purely for operations and useless outside of it (pve-expertise or something). Would raiders be happy with that?

Quote: Originally Posted by lexiekaboom View Post
The only thing better then when entitled people use false logic to try and show why they should continue to be entitled is when the logic they use, in fact, shows how they are wrong.

The guy with the bachelors degree will earn more money. So it's like he makes $100 an hour.

The guy who doesn't have one makes $10 an hour.

Your argument: The guy without a bachelors degree should never be allowed to own anything that costs $100, because you (having a degree) are simply a better and more worthy person. You EARN your money at your hard job while he just coasts by working at his min. wage job.

My argument (and the way the world works): If that guys spends 10 hours at his job, he earns his $100 and can buy whatever the hell he wants.

Raiding pays more then dailies. But if you spend time doing dailies, you earned loot.

Get over yourself.
I pretty much completely agree with this and it makes perfectly logical sense.

Raiding in this game is not hard - you will get a full clear on hard/nightmare modes in ~1 hour per operation or 2 max for a bad run. The person who does belsavis/ilum dailies every single day for ~1.5 hours just to get one rakata implant a week is, in my opinion, putting in far more effort than the guy who raids for 2 hours a week and gets multiple pieces of armor.

(For the record, im full best-in-slot rakata everything and i raid every week)

drosalion's Avatar


drosalion
03.19.2012 , 05:43 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by IndoJabijin View Post
This is why I'm looking forward to GW2. No carrot on a stick for stats. Gear is purely for aesthetics and not for stats.

IMO they should just make all level 50 gear the same, but the better, cooler looking stuff for raids, HM, and NM. But then again this is Star Wars and not Guild Wars.
I personally think thats a bad system and one major flaw with GW2 (although I agree technically that the current system in most MMO's is also bad). The problem with GW2 is that there is no progression beyond appearance. The key element of MMO's/RPG's and longetivity is progression, it is incredibly important. You say the better/cooler looking stuff should be left to harder difficulties - but what is better/cooler is purely opinionated (look at the top end armor in this game and peoples opinion on it for a perfect example). I personally like the lower-end armours in this game, so if a system like GW2 was implemented where people dislike the high-end armours and would do anything they can to NOT use them... then wheres the progression?