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Pyro Railshot ever 6 Seconds!??!?!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Pyro Railshot ever 6 Seconds!??!?!

Theology's Avatar


Theology
03.17.2012 , 12:43 PM | #11
45% Flame burst 60% Rocket punch.

Hardly significant.

Assaultrooper's Avatar


Assaultrooper
03.17.2012 , 12:49 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Sowwy View Post
Its a good change imo. Now, why they're not adjusting the damage of that wet noodle called Advanced Proto is confusing.
They kinda are "buffin" AP, now u pretty much COULD have a rail shot crit every time its off cooldown, with how the dot would proc it... I tried out AP since 1.1.5 (now I have 30 fps in very low) and AP wasnt THAT bad, still bad, but not that bad.

Granted that pyro changes will make it MUCH more sustain dps instead of burst Im really curious how the new snare and dps buff in AP will play out.
Quote: Originally Posted by CrunkShizzle View Post
Just wonderin how AP is lookin pvp wise
Could be worse

dudexx's Avatar


dudexx
03.17.2012 , 01:00 PM | #13
u guys realize its not going to trigger every 6 seconds. the significant increase in rates arent that significant. it will be just as random but with a 6 second cooldown. hope u guys are getting ready for a lot autoattacking.

it is a nerf and a pretty big one.

Assaultrooper's Avatar


Assaultrooper
03.17.2012 , 01:30 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by dudexx View Post
u guys realize its not going to trigger every 6 seconds. the significant increase in rates arent that significant. it will be just as random but with a 6 second cooldown. hope u guys are getting ready for a lot autoattacking.

it is a nerf and a pretty big one.
After some thinking I realized this... How it is right now we still got the entire bad stuff from the RNG, yet none of the Good stuff.

I can FB/RP spam and there is the possibility that I will go the entire fight without a proc... YET there is not the possibility that I will get back to back procs.

Sad day...
Quote: Originally Posted by CrunkShizzle View Post
Just wonderin how AP is lookin pvp wise
Could be worse

sithhammer's Avatar


sithhammer
03.17.2012 , 01:33 PM | #15
This is a harsh for balancing a 3 or 4sec cd would have been more reasonable with the use of CGC, but 6 sec jacks with our heat control
the republic is full of meat bags It's my job to thin the heard.

Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
Theodore Roosevelt

Theology's Avatar


Theology
03.17.2012 , 02:03 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by sithhammer View Post
This is a harsh for balancing a 3 or 4sec cd would have been more reasonable with the use of CGC, but 6 sec jacks with our heat control
4.5 Secs would have been fine. It would match the Flame Barrage talent in this tank tree. That's what it should be.

Panner_'s Avatar


Panner_
03.17.2012 , 02:23 PM | #17
Napkin math incoming!

I'm assuming a spec without TD.
When I write "attack" I mean Flame Burst or Rocket Punch.

Currently the expected number of attacks needed to proc PPA is around 3 (best case scenario is around 2.83, worst case is around 3.33). A 4-GCD rotation consisting of 3 attacks and 1 PPA-boosted Rail Shot lands at +10 heat every 6 seconds. Without any downtime, this is not sustainable. Weaving in one Rapid Shots in every rotation changes the heat increase to +2.5 heat every 7.5 seconds. Vent Heat can easily cover that heat gain.

In 1.2, the expected number of attacks needed to proc PPA is around 2 (best case scenario is around 1.89, worst case is around 2.22). The two first GCDs after using Rail Shot are 'lost', so a total of around 4 GCDs are needed to proc PPA. This becomes a 5-GCD rotation consisting of 2 attacks, 1 PPA-boosted Rail Shot, and 2 more abilities. We see that if one attack and one Rapid Shots is chosen, this becomes the exact same rotation as above, resulting in the same manageable heat gain, +2.5 heat every 7.5 seconds.

The rotation in 1.2 should perform approximately as well as the current rotation on a target dummy over an extended period of time.

However, any fight that has downtime will allow for more aggressive heat usage, which should favor the current rotation. The 1.2 rotation, on the other hand, has more opportunity for using Incendiary Missie, Sticky Bomb etc. without wasting potential PPA procs.

Theology's Avatar


Theology
03.17.2012 , 03:47 PM | #18
You can't use IM for a filler because of the heat cost bro.

NyteSabre's Avatar


NyteSabre
03.18.2012 , 06:35 AM | #19
The problem is this, it won't be a rail shot every 6 secs, its going to be more in the realms of 8 - 9 sec rail shot cd's (No idea if someone has already mentioned this, and after reading my post, if someone can comfirm something different, please do)

By rights any procs on particle inside the 6 sec cooldown will be not counted. So its only anything after the 6 sec internal cd will it have a chance to proc.

Further taking into consideration that the more likely to proc skill (rocket punch) will very likely be on cd/blown within the 6 sec internal cd timer, the likely hood of having a rocket punch ready to go immediantly after the internal 6 sec cd, and be in melee range is pretty low.

So that leaves flameburst, will take approx 2 flame bursts for a proc, add a couple of GCD and you have a more realistic fire rate of 8-9 secs.

Shiboe's Avatar


Shiboe
03.18.2012 , 06:50 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by NyteSabre View Post
The problem is this, it won't be a rail shot every 6 secs, its going to be more in the realms of 8 - 9 sec rail shot cd's (No idea if someone has already mentioned this, and after reading my post, if someone can comfirm something different, please do)

By rights any procs on particle inside the 6 sec cooldown will be not counted. So its only anything after the 6 sec internal cd will it have a chance to proc.

Further taking into consideration that the more likely to proc skill (rocket punch) will very likely be on cd/blown within the 6 sec internal cd timer, the likely hood of having a rocket punch ready to go immediantly after the internal 6 sec cd, and be in melee range is pretty low.

So that leaves flameburst, will take approx 2 flame bursts for a proc, add a couple of GCD and you have a more realistic fire rate of 8-9 secs.
True, and more I think about it, more I want to retract my original statement. This ISN'T warranted, and looks to make the proc based spec feel significantly more clunky. For example, pvp one now must avoid opening with flame burst / rocket punch before the initial rail shot (that's dependant on a dot, ie an opener) or gimp their burst with an accidental proc. As you mentioned too, there's now a static rotation to WHEN you fire your rocket punch.

So what have they done? Locked everyone of a spec into a very rigid skill sequence/cycle, made combat more boring, and potentially turned the pure dps spec into a lackluster one with no redeeming value.

As a pvp player, I'm starting to think this idea of coupling proc based talents (the fun ones that make combat unique) with a cooldown is a terrible one. BW seems to think opposite. I would wager this is PvE rotational boringness coming to bear on the game, and I don't like it, honestly.