I will preface this with the fact that I play both a 50 Sorcerer (healer-spec'd) and a 50 Vanguard (DPS-spec'd). This is NOT a "I hate healers" thread. I am a healer (and I love being one) and I feel it is time to be honest about a system that was fine but that is now broken. This is a thread meant to shed clarity on how Bioware has broken warzone recognition and participation and a possible solution to make it right so that healers still get credit for helping those who kill.

I do not believe it is appropriate that I get more kills than any damage-do'er now that I get credit for each of their kills when I heal them. I would be extremely upset if the shoe was on the other foot and I had to endure watching a damage-do'er wind up with more healing credit from all the people that healed them when they did no healing at all.

Initially, everyone kept saying that healers would get kill credit in Ilum only. While I still did not agree with the idea of getting "kill" credit, I did (and still do) support us healers getting "credit" when our side kills an oppositional forces and ew are healing those that kill the OPFOR. What went unnoticed was the fact that this "kill credit" is also happening in warzones. I love medals, don't get me wrong. My whole intention when I enter warzones is to kick as much behind as possible to finish at the top, no matter what role I performing, to help my team win and so that I get more valor/comms/etc. at the end of the match than others do.

However, when I am focused on healing DPSers/tanks in a WZ and I am showing more kills than any of them at the end of the match, when I have made no kills at all, I feel this is shortchanging those whose role it is to kill. As a healer, my job is to heal. That is the role I chose, that is the role I expect to be given credit for DPSers do damage. They kill. They should get credit for kills. Tanks are supposed to tank and often they "guard". They should get credit for the protection they provide and the kills they make. If I wanted "kill credit" I would go play my Vanguard and kill. Why are you giving me credit for something I did not do? I do not deserve the medals I am earning that are related to kills. I feel I am cheating those who did earn them. It's just not right, not to them and certainly not to me.

Since you broke it, did you give any consideration to DPSers/tanks getting any credit for being healed? Of course not. And why is that? Easy - Tanks/DPSers don't heal; they take/do damage. That is their job. Healers...while we can do damage and while we can kill, but our focus is to heal and keep our team members form dying. Giving me "kill credit" for a kill I did not make or for damage I did not do skews the results at the end of the game. I should NOT be walking away with more kills under my belt any more than an Assassin or Marauder should walk away with "heal credit" from all the healing they received during any given match. If you want kill credit - kill. If you want heal credit - heal. It *was* that easy. Now it is all jacked up and the results do not properly reflect what it truly happening in the warzones.

I want to propose the following ideas: Go back to the original format of kill counting. If someone does damage to a player that results in a kill, give them credit for it. Next, add a new column just for healers that gives them some kind of credit for saving lives. "Life saving" credit should be given only once the player they are healing loses a certain percentage of their health, say 50%. Also, you can add a column that shows how many unique players they healed. This would also require them to heal a certain percentage of a player's health, say 25%. Otherwise you'd have all these idiots getting their buddies to dip their toe in an acid pool for easy medals. These are just ideas, and perhaps one of them are any good. Regardless, you have to remove the "kill credit" you are now giving us for other people's kills in warzones because it simply isn't accurate data.

I know some healers (I was not one of them) were complaining about having no incentive to go in warzones or they would complain about not having recognition. People expect accurate data at the end of any given warzone. That is how MVPs are chosen. That is how medals are determined. That is how valor, experience, and commendations are given. Giving us "kill credit' was not the answer. I *always* get recognition when I my team members elect me as the MVP or send me personal thanks for the great healing I gave them. What else do we need?

Participation credit needs to remain in place in Ilum. All players, regardless of their role, need to receive credit for their participation when they kill OPFOR. If I heal my tank/DPS in Ilum, I fully expect to get credit against every player they kill. in warzones, I expect to get credit for doing what I do - healing. Do the right thing, Bioware - Change it back.

Also, PLEASE stop giving healing credit when we use Consumption in Warzones. I am tired of watching these guys spam Consumption and healing themselves. Any point lost to Consumption should NOT be awarded under our healing points. Thank you.

An essay...

... About something so unimportant.

When they first said that healers are going to get kill credit for healing people who kill people I thought, "Wow, that's just so easy!"

And it is... I get credit for the majority of kills that happen at the main battles in WZs.

It doesn't matter at all though. Doesn't mean anything now that medals are capped at 4.

I personally never cared either way, when i'm on my healer, i'm healing, regardless of what points I get.

That said, if DPS classes get credit for a kill even if they only damaged an enemy, why shouldn't healer get credit for healing someone that damages an enemy?

It doesn't matter at all though. Doesn't mean anything now that medals are capped at 4.

No, it is important because I am getting credit for something I am not doing. I raise the issue because I have integrity, something you may not care about in the realm of pixels, but it is something that matters to me regardless of the medium it is being applied.

Like I said before, I would not want to get "heal credit" on my Vanguard for people healing him. I do not want "kill credit" when I am not killing because I did not earn those kills. Despite what you personally believe, most people want to see how they did at the end of warzones to gauge how they stack up against other players. These numbers may not matter to you...just as your opinion does not truly matter to me...but you do not speak for everyone who enjoys looking at "how they did" at the end of matches and expects some degree of accuracy.

Also, I am tired of people sending me nasty /whispers to the effect of, "W T F, man? How did you get more kills than me AND did 300K healing? That is buIIshlt!" I can take criticism, but I have the integrity to call foul when something is foul. We healers getting kill credit when we are not making the kills is foul. Your apathy is irrelevant to those that accuracy does matter to.

No, it is important because I am getting credit for something I am not doing.

I am earning those kills. My actions as a healer directly support that kill. With out my heals there is a good chance that there would be no kill. Heal and DPS should share "kill credit" Saying that DPS should get "heal credit" for the amount healed is like saying that healers should get "damage credit" for the damage done by the people they heal.

TL;DR

Share kill credits = yes

Share healing/damage credit = no

I personally never cared either way, when i'm on my healer, i'm healing, regardless of what points I get.

 

That said, if DPS classes get credit for a kill even if they only damaged an enemy, why shouldn't healer get credit for healing someone that damages an enemy?

this.

even when the changes weren't in yet, I got kill credits on a completely heal specced char. you know why? because I .damaged. them. I used my AOEs to hit a few enemies and heal in-between.

you know why I did that? because compared to other classes by healing only I never got more than 3-4 medals.

now I don't have to worry about either and can instead concentrate on just healing people up so we actually .win. the match

Welcome to the world...

You will soon learn that getting credit for things you didn't do is infinately better than the normal state of not getting any credit for anything you do.

Why are you so insisting, that you are getting credit for doing something you havent done? If you help to kill a player by healing DD you get kredit for that. Thats how it should be. You dont get DMG medals, you dont get protection medals. No DD or tank get healing medals. Looks fair to me...

Why? Pardon me if it is glaringly obvious when I have stated I am not killing people when I play my healer and I am getting more kills at the end of the match than the highest DPS-role player on my team. Try, in your mind, to explain the logic for me getting kill credit when I am not killig anyone. Should that not be considered something else...say, combined effort credit, or participation credit (uhh..isn't that what we all get at the end whether we win or lose when we get comms, valor, credits, etc.?), or assist credit?

Would you expect Bill Gates to give you a salary just because you use Windows products? That would make sense to you because, you know, you're a Windows participant and you should get the same benefits as anyone that works at Microsoft. I would hope you have the commom sense to say, "No. I do not work for Microsoft. that is not my job. I should not get paid or get credit for the work they do, depsite my involvement in using their products." Microsoft makes software. That is their job. Healers heal. That is their job. I am not of the mindset that people should get credit for something they are not doing. I do not want kill credit for kills I do not make. I want to get credit for what I do in warzones - heal. I already get heal credit, just as I get credit for the damage I do. Why do I need more than I deserve while people playing other roles do not get the same benefit?

even when the changes weren't in yet, I got kill credits on a completely heal specced char. you know why? because I .damaged. them. I used my AOEs to hit a few enemies and heal in-between.

Duh. I have two Battlemaster toons. I know how the game works and I typically get 7+ medals in every WZ I enter on either toon... Because. I. Know. How. To. Play. The. Game. And. Do. Not. Require. A. Handicap. Like. You. Do.

Love your use of one-word sentences though...really dramatic effect to get your point across there.

Capping at 4 medals should make it insanely easy for *everyone* to get max medals. So, why handicap us healers by giving us a path to earn more than we need? If you can't get 4 medals on your own merit as a healer, you suck. Plain and simple. If you earn 7+ medals in warzones, you obviously know what you are doing and don't need the "extra" recognition of getting kills that you are not making. Yeah, I use my AoEs and other attacks too when I am not actively healing a party member, which is why I always get a lot of medals. So, tell me, as a healer...why do I need MORE ways to get medals by earning kills I did not make when it is capped at 4 medals? Tell me how that makes one bit of sense.

I am killing people with my healer, I just do it indirectly. I heal others so they live long enough to kill the opposition.

Honestly, the number is pretty meaningless, just something that helps you get medals. DPS gets big hits, just like healing does. DPS gets total amount done, just like healing. But DPS also gets solo kill and quantity of kills medals. So they decided to balance that out a bit, to allow us to get the quantity of kills ones.

If it really is a problem that healers get so many kills, I reckon the devs can always just put a modifier on the number, so that we get a partial kill credit, say 2/3rds or 1/2 per kill. A modifier sufficient to let us get a couple of medals while at the same time making sure we aren't the top killer.

OP : Your assumption would be fine if there was any kind of credit for healers that distinguished how many people on our team hadn't died as part of our actions. Sadly this is a totally impossible statistic to track as it would involve replaying infinite numbers of parallel outcomes to determine if each heal was of any use.

As healers are missing out of this possibility it then falls back to getting assists. The system works.

It doesnt bother me either way as I'm one of those healers that will happily turn around and spank the last 2% of an enemies health bar knowing that if all my team are above 50% its better I do that than an enemy healer gets him back up to full. So I get kill credits anyway, with or without the system.

You have issues OP. Claiming it is based on integrity is absolute crap. Healing a DPS while they kill another player IS IN FACT helping that DPS get said kill. I suppose your integrity would prevent you from taking any loot from Raids or other group missions.

Integrity....lol

You have issues OP. Claiming it is based on integrity is absolute crap. Healing a DPS while they kill another player IS IN FACT helping that DPS get said kill. I suppose your integrity would prevent you from taking any loot from Raids or other group missions.

 

Integrity....lol

Laughing at those who have integrity demonstrates your complte lack of it. You, sir, are the one with issues; not me.

Why? Pardon me if it is glaringly obvious when I have stated I am not killing people when I play my healer and I am getting more kills at the end of the match than the highest DPS-role player on my team. Try, in your mind, to explain the logic for me getting kill credit when I am not killig anyone. Should that not be considered something else...say, combined effort credit, or participation credit (uhh..isn't that what we all get at the end whether we win or lose when we get comms, valor, credits, etc.?), or assist credit?

 

Would you expect Bill Gates to give you a salary just because you use Windows products? That would make sense to you because, you know, you're a Windows participant and you should get the same benefits as anyone that works at Microsoft. I would hope you have the commom sense to say, "No. I do not work for Microsoft. that is not my job. I should not get paid or get credit for the work they do, depsite my involvement in using their products." Microsoft makes software. That is their job. Healers heal. That is their job. I am not of the mindset that people should get credit for something they are not doing. I do not want kill credit for kills I do not make. I want to get credit for what I do in warzones - heal. I already get heal credit, just as I get credit for the damage I do. Why do I need more than I deserve while people playing other roles do not get the same benefit?

I think your missing the point. Though you did not make a kill or do damage you helped.your dps get the kill. Its a team game. By working as a team you should both get credit. If the healer wasnt helping then your dpsmay not of gottn a kill but might of been killed.

Healers had the lowest medals if they only healed. They had to stop healing and try to tag players with damage in order to get any credit.

The kills count is just how many you helped kill. A dps only has to hit a person once and he will still get kill credit. Its not like healers are getting killing blows.

Laughing at those who have integrity demonstrates your complte lack of it. You, sir, are the one with issues; not me.

That is not integrity.

I will preface this with the fact that I play both a 50 Sorcerer (healer-spec'd) and a 50 Vanguard (DPS-spec'd). This is NOT a "I hate healers" thread. I am a healer (and I love being one) and I feel it is time to be honest about a system that was fine but that is now broken. This is a thread meant to shed clarity on how Bioware has broken warzone recognition and participation and a possible solution to make it right so that healers still get credit for helping those who kill.

 

I do not believe it is appropriate that I get more kills than any damage-do'er now that I get credit for each of their kills when I heal them. I would be extremely upset if the shoe was on the other foot and I had to endure watching a damage-do'er wind up with more healing credit from all the people that healed them when they did no healing at all.

 

Initially, everyone kept saying that healers would get kill credit in Ilum only. While I still did not agree with the idea of getting "kill" credit, I did (and still do) support us healers getting "credit" when our side kills an oppositional forces and ew are healing those that kill the OPFOR. What went unnoticed was the fact that this "kill credit" is also happening in warzones. I love medals, don't get me wrong. My whole intention when I enter warzones is to kick as much behind as possible to finish at the top, no matter what role I performing, to help my team win and so that I get more valor/comms/etc. at the end of the match than others do.

 

However, when I am focused on healing DPSers/tanks in a WZ and I am showing more kills than any of them at the end of the match, when I have made no kills at all, I feel this is shortchanging those whose role it is to kill. As a healer, my job is to heal. That is the role I chose, that is the role I expect to be given credit for DPSers do damage. They kill. They should get credit for kills. Tanks are supposed to tank and often they "guard". They should get credit for the protection they provide and the kills they make. If I wanted "kill credit" I would go play my Vanguard and kill. Why are you giving me credit for something I did not do? I do not deserve the medals I am earning that are related to kills. I feel I am cheating those who did earn them. It's just not right, not to them and certainly not to me.

 

Since you broke it, did you give any consideration to DPSers/tanks getting any credit for being healed? Of course not. And why is that? Easy - Tanks/DPSers don't heal; they take/do damage. That is their job. Healers...while we can do damage and while we can kill, but our focus is to heal and keep our team members form dying. Giving me "kill credit" for a kill I did not make or for damage I did not do skews the results at the end of the game. I should NOT be walking away with more kills under my belt any more than an Assassin or Marauder should walk away with "heal credit" from all the healing they received during any given match. If you want kill credit - kill. If you want heal credit - heal. It *was* that easy. Now it is all jacked up and the results do not properly reflect what it truly happening in the warzones.

 

I want to propose the following ideas: Go back to the original format of kill counting. If someone does damage to a player that results in a kill, give them credit for it. Next, add a new column just for healers that gives them some kind of credit for saving lives. "Life saving" credit should be given only once the player they are healing loses a certain percentage of their health, say 50%. Also, you can add a column that shows how many unique players they healed. This would also require them to heal a certain percentage of a player's health, say 25%. Otherwise you'd have all these idiots getting their buddies to dip their toe in an acid pool for easy medals. These are just ideas, and perhaps one of them are any good. Regardless, you have to remove the "kill credit" you are now giving us for other people's kills in warzones because it simply isn't accurate data.

 

I know some healers (I was not one of them) were complaining about having no incentive to go in warzones or they would complain about not having recognition. People expect accurate data at the end of any given warzone. That is how MVPs are chosen. That is how medals are determined. That is how valor, experience, and commendations are given. Giving us "kill credit' was not the answer. I *always* get recognition when I my team members elect me as the MVP or send me personal thanks for the great healing I gave them. What else do we need?

 

Participation credit needs to remain in place in Ilum. All players, regardless of their role, need to receive credit for their participation when they kill OPFOR. If I heal my tank/DPS in Ilum, I fully expect to get credit against every player they kill. in warzones, I expect to get credit for doing what I do - healing. Do the right thing, Bioware - Change it back.

 

Also, PLEASE stop giving healing credit when we use Consumption in Warzones. I am tired of watching these guys spam Consumption and healing themselves. Any point lost to Consumption should NOT be awarded under our healing points. Thank you.

he would of never killed that person if he was not healed >.<

Why? Pardon me if it is glaringly obvious when I have stated I am not killing people when I play my healer and I am getting more kills at the end of the match than the highest DPS-role player on my team. Try, in your mind, to explain the logic for me getting kill credit when I am not killig anyone. Should that not be considered something else...say, combined effort credit, or participation credit (uhh..isn't that what we all get at the end whether we win or lose when we get comms, valor, credits, etc.?), or assist credit?

 

Would you expect Bill Gates to give you a salary just because you use Windows products? That would make sense to you because, you know, you're a Windows participant and you should get the same benefits as anyone that works at Microsoft. I would hope you have the commom sense to say, "No. I do not work for Microsoft. that is not my job. I should not get paid or get credit for the work they do, depsite my involvement in using their products." Microsoft makes software. That is their job. Healers heal. That is their job. I am not of the mindset that people should get credit for something they are not doing. I do not want kill credit for kills I do not make. I want to get credit for what I do in warzones - heal. I already get heal credit, just as I get credit for the damage I do. Why do I need more than I deserve while people playing other roles do not get the same benefit?

That is quite possibly one of the worst analogies I have ever seen.

OP : Your assumption would be fine if there was any kind of credit for healers that distinguished how many people on our team hadn't died as part of our actions. Sadly this is a totally impossible statistic to track as it would involve replaying infinite numbers of parallel outcomes to determine if each heal was of any use.

You are assuming we are not already rewarded by our participation by not helping the team win, which gives us more exp, valor, comms, etc. As a healer, I should not be focused on how many kills I get (or am being credited with) when my purpose is to heal; I should be focused on keeping a ball carrier alive or keeping my tank/DPS players alive. If I kill someone, I want credit for damaging them just like anyone else. My reward is doing my job – healing. I expect to be rewarded on how I do my job, not reap the numbers that people who perform a different job are getting in their kill column.

The logic of advocating healers getting kill credit should be applied equally to killers getting credit for the heals they get. Just as some of you have said, “They could not kill unless I heal them, therefore I should get kill credit,” the opposite is true (by your logic) by saying, “I could not heal unless I they were being damaged, therefore they should get heal credit.” The end result when (if) we win is the only reward we should get (in addition to our own properly counted merits of meeting specific objectives or milestones in any given warzone).

For those of you saying it is no big deal, please explain to me your logic if the roles were reversed or a system was added to give damage-do’ers “healing credit” for the healing they receive. After all, according to your logic, without a healer a killer cannot kill, ergo we healers should get kill credit. It is only logical then, with your logic applied, that killers get damaged so they are doing their part to keep healers employed, ergo they should be given healing credit for being kept alive.

These numbers are going to matter *A LOT* when this new ranking system comes out. Watch, these boards will be on fire from all of the Assassins, Marauders, etc. complaining about how they are being screwed on the ranking system by healers that are getting more credit for kills than they are yet absolutely no credit for killing other players so that healers may live to do our job of healing them.

Kills

Killing blows

Healing done

Damage done

How many of those stats are tracked? How many of those stats favor a DPS class?

Kills

Killing blows

Healing done

Damage done

 

How many of those stats are tracked? How many of those stats favor a DPS class?

So why not give us healers stats (by adding more that are related to what we DO do) instead of lumping us into a column that we are not actively doing? Indirect support is not what I want measured in a stat column. I want stats that are a direct result of my actions. This is what rankings should be based on.

If titles were granted for having high rankings, how stupid will it look for a well-known healer on some server to carry the title "Master Slayer" (or whatever they would call it) for getting all of that kill credit when his job was to heal? Conversely, I think it would be just as stupid for a damage-do'ers to get a title "Life Saver" when his job is to kill (if the reverse roll was added for killers to get healing credit for being healed, which it should *not* be).

All I am asking for here is for some common sense - Give people their appropriate credit for the role they perform according to the actions they make in any given warzone. Indirect reward is earned at the end of the game when your team wins (or loses). That is all the indrect credit anyone needs. Lumping indirect "participation" into a column that is very specific toward one act (killing) is not a good measure of someone's participation when their function is to heal, not kill. While killing and healing are inter-related, they are not the same thing and they should be rewarded separately, not as one stat (Kills) that has nothig to do with the direct action of healing.

Wow honestly OP, you are sure dumb and arrogant as hell. You got issues that healers will get credit for CONTRIBUTING to fight. Honestly. Its quite logic, that if you help someone survive and take down enemy you also should get credit for taking part in the fight. Other side of medal is determining if it would be better if healer helped dps in this moment or not. Nevertheless when fight starts for good, its the healers, the good healers that make it possible for dps to take down enemy.

There was alot of tears on forums since game was launched, how the healers need more love in warzones, how dps get more medals options(whi doesnt matter anymore anyways). Now that healers will get more love, there come people like you, raging against it.

Its hard to please players nowadays, sigh.

Would you expect Bill Gates to give you a salary just because you use Windows products?

I think the problem here is you think that having the highest total kills done at the end of a warzone is beneficial in some way, which it isn't. Even from a standpoint of bragging rights DPSers know that a lot of kills they get are people they never even tried to kill.(IE people randomly coming by and taking a hit of AoE, even some aoe knockbacks deal a small amount of damage)

Now, if we can find a way to convert warzone scoreboard stats into something as beneficial as making money, I'd be totally on board for that!